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KwS's Small Car Shenanigans. Making Altos work.


kws

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14 minutes ago, kws said:

 

Got ya that makes more sense 

Yes if you had a ring with 60mm OD that was the thickness of the Brake Disc/Rotor and an ID of the Hub at that height that would center it fine :)

If you have to make something you could make it so you could also center the wheels on them as well so it would be 

56.1mm od for wheels to 60mm od for Rotor bore and Inner ID of 56.1mm?

But if your happy with the wheels being studcentric no reason to complicate it

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40 minutes ago, shrike said:

But if your happy with the wheels being studcentric no reason to complicate it

Not 100% happy >_< one of the reasons its back on the drawing board. I'm sure there is a better way to do it without resorting to making anything. When I do revisit it, it might end up just being 3mm spacers behind the rotors as that should keep the rotors just centric on the hub, and allow wheels to also be hubcentric, the only issue is that the rotor won't be centered in the caliper bracket anymore. I'm think the main issue with the rotor not being centred would be that new pads may not fit on one side, the difference shouldn't be enough that a pad could fall out or anything

I could also have the center bore machined out of a pair of Cynos rotors....

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Is there enough meat on the backside of the hub flange that you could machine the hub so it's just a constant 54mm to suit the Toyota rotors & wheels? ie eliminate the step

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3 hours ago, fuel said:

Is there enough meat on the backside of the hub flange that you could machine the hub so it's just a constant 54mm to suit the Toyota rotors & wheels? ie eliminate the step

I briefly considered that but I won't be altering the car to make it work, the plan was for a bolt on setup. I presume there's a reason for the step too, Suzuki didn't waste money or weight where they didn't need to on the Alto.

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could you find another pair of hubs to modify, or retain as originals if putting back to stock? given the rotors are more of a consumable, and you're already altering the braking system already, you could modify another pair of hubs for a more 'bolt on' solution where you don't need to keep modifying rotors should you need to replace them again in future.

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I could, but by the time I buy some hubs, put new bearings in them, and buy some new rotors I'll be in it for as much as a Silkroad bolt on kit 

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10 hours ago, kws said:

Not 100% happy >_< one of the reasons its back on the drawing board. I'm sure there is a better way to do it without resorting to making anything. When I do revisit it, it might end up just being 3mm spacers behind the rotors as that should keep the rotors just centric on the hub, and allow wheels to also be hubcentric, the only issue is that the rotor won't be centered in the caliper bracket anymore. I'm think the main issue with the rotor not being centred would be that new pads may not fit on one side, the difference shouldn't be enough that a pad could fall out or anything

I could also have the center bore machined out of a pair of Cynos rotors....

You definitely want the rotors and wheels to be hub centric, you track the car occasionally and that puts additional load on everything, and vibrations are a great way to suck any fun out of the day.

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18 minutes ago, Hyperblade said:

You definitely want the rotors and wheels to be hub centric, you track the car occasionally and that puts additional load on everything, and vibrations are a great way to suck any fun out of the day.

I was more worried about weakening it and losing a wheel or something, but yeah vibrations are a no go. 

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  • 5 weeks later...

I can't leave anything well enough alone, so the Alto once again popped into the garage for some quick upgrades.

The first thing I did in the garage was adjust the Blow Off Valve. Since fitting it I had suspected I may have had a boost leak. There was occasionally a fluttering noise under boost, and when a fellow Alto owner took my car for a run up the road the other day it wouldn't reach 18psi and felt flat.

There were also the obvious noises the BOV was making. It would "blow off" a lot, even when barely on boost, and if you eased off the throttle when on boost you could make it stay open and venting with a long woooooooooooooosh.

To make adjustments to the preload on the internal spring you need to back off the lock nut on top and screw in the grub screw. It's not exactly easy to access on the Alto... completely obscured by the slam panel

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You can see the adjustment screw on top here

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The lock nut was easy to access with a 10mm spanner, but to do the actual adjustment I had to use a ball-end allen key, through the hole in the slam panel to the right of the BOV, on a really tight angle. I backed the lock nut off a few turns and wound the grub screw in. I also replaced the O ring on the vacuum fitting as this was a really loose fit.

A quick test drive shows this may have solved the boost issue, as giving it a couple of quick squirts on the open road I saw at least 17psi on the boost gauge, and it feels a bit more nippy. I'll need to do some more driving to confirm if it's resolved or not. The BOV only opens at full boost or high load now, and snaps shut quickly, a much better solution.

While under the bonnet there was another small change I needed to do. When I got the car I noticed the negative terminal was loose where it connects to the ground cable, and if you tried to tighten the nut further the whole stud would spin. I jammed a screwdriver in to hold the stud in place and managed to get it tight, but it wasn't ideal.

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I ordered a replacement

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I had a battle to get the nut undone and ended up jamming some random metal into the fitting to stop the stud from turning long enough to remove the nut. Going by the random copper strands around the stud, I suspect it's been messed with in the past to wire up something else, audio maybe.

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The replacement fit nicely and tightened up with no issue. I used some copper grease to hopefully stop the nut from seizing to the stud.

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Moving inside, I replaced the interior rear vision mirror. The Alto is so billy basic, that the mirror doesn't have a dipping function. As you can imagine, having a lowered car, with lowered seats, driving in the dark with a mirror that doesn't dip, well yeah, it gets annoying quick. Everything is like having a pair of suns behind you.

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Thankfully Suzuki used a similar mirror in a few different models, which does allow dipping; P/N 84703-81A14-6GS. There is also a small rubber vibration dampener 84782-76G00.

The mirror is quite easy to remove. Pop the lamp lens off

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Remove the two screws and disconnect the wire behind the light (pulls free, no clip)

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The replacement mirror bolts right on into the same place. Just connect the wiring first and slip the rubber vibration doodad in too

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Another bonus of this mirror is that it moves slightly towards the front of the car, further out of the drivers eye line.

Now I'll be able to drive in the dark, and Rangers won't be able to blind me anymore. Ha, take that.

Another interior job, while I was here, was to replace the drivers seatbelt extender. I cocked up last time by bending one the other way, but this made it all go wrong. The belt was binding on the extender and wouldn't recoil properly.

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Another genuine Honda part was ordered

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I drilled the hole out to suit the bolt, and fit it upside down, like others had. It worked 100% better in this configuration.

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Finally, the last job in the interior was to replace the throttle pedal mount with an aftermarket one which changes the angle of the pedal so it's more comfortable for lowered seat rails. I had noticed my ankle was less than happy sometimes when cruising, so hopefully this helps.

I ordered a cheap generic brand from Yahoo Auctions, it had an uh, interesting brand name... LSEX-F

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Using a deep 12mm socket I removed the two nuts holding the pedal to the bracket

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And then the three holding the bracket to the car.

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Reassembly was just the reverse. Mount the bracket, and screw the pedal to it. Easy. Don't forget to plug the pedal back in if you unplugged it. It doesn't need to be removed or even unplugged, you can just move it aside.

In the quick drive I did it was noticeably more comfortable, but I'll need to take it for a longer drive to see how effective it is.

Moving outside, I had a pair of Cusco front mud flaps to fit. I had noticed since replacing the suspension and adding more camber to the front, that I was now hearing stones and dirt hitting the doors as the front tyres are more exposed now.

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I will say they're probably fairly expensive for what they are, just two bits of laser-cut plastic, but the fitment was spot on.

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They have two height settings and are slotted so you can move them inboard or outboard.

They're easy to fit. Remove two clips

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Line up the holes for the desired option, and reinsert the clips through the mudflap

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I set mine to the higher setting, and as far outboard as they go

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I think they look quite good. The back of them has a nice textured finish, whilst the "dirty" side is glossy.

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It looks like it covers the tread nicely, so should significantly reduce the amount of stones hitting the doors.

And last but not least, I fitted some snake oil.

There's a lot out there about these "door stabilizers", originally made by Aisin and marketed by TRD, so they can't be all bad. Whether they actually do anything, or if they are more of a placebo, we're yet to see.

The theory behind them is that the car is a box with big holes in the side that are filled with doors, but these doors, although latching on the back edge, don't really jam up against the frame, so they offer little to no rigidity. The stabilizers work to jam the door against the frame, adding that rigidity back in.

This little diagram is from Aisin. I think the effects are a tad over-exaggerated, but gets the idea across

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They're quite easy to fit. The Alto requires replacement screws for the strikers (or removing the star washers from the existing screws), but all you do is remove the striker

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And replace it with the stabilizer striker

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This has a spring-loaded wedge thing on it, hiding the screws

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The other half of the deal goes on the door itself. You need to remove two screws from the catch

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and fit this little bracket

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And these little plastic wedges slide onto it

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The doors do have a slightly more reassuring "thud" when closing, and coming in and out of my driveway the body seems to creak a little less, but time will tell if I can notice any difference when driving. They're probably just a gimmick, but I'm willing to give them a fair try. Other HA36S owners in Japan have sworn there are good results when fitting these, so who knows.

That's all for now. A new SWK intercooler is on the way, so that, and reinstating the IC water spray, are probably next on the list of things to do.

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21 minutes ago, kws said:

They're probably just a gimmick

You could tie some string front and back and in an X inside the car, then go take some hard corners and see if any droop during the turn

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I'm not saying the door stabilizers aren't a placebo, but I swear I felt them on the drive into work this morning. The body felt tighter in corners, and less creaking.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Many months ago, back in January, I upgraded the small stock intercooler to a big Greddy one. I'm changing this again.

The Greddy intercooler was good. It has a massive core and low restriction

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After changing from the tiny standard intercooler I could almost immediately feel an increase in low-end power, particularly when climbing hills. Clearly the Greddy IC flows more air than the stock IC.

On the track in Jan, it did its best to keep intake temps down. 25c+ ambient temps meant that I was seeing 50-60c IAT on 8psi and over 70c on 15psi boost. The temps would drop quickly off boost as the Greddy IC could shed that heat easily, but it seemed to struggle a bit to keep the temps in check when on boost. I suspect this is because I'm working the little turbo quite hard and since the IC flows so well it doesn't have time to grab that heat from the air. I believe either running stock boost, or a higher flow turbo that's making less heat would work better with this IC. The other thing that could help would be reinstalling the IC water spray the previous owner had in Japan...

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So that's where I decided to move the Greddy IC onto a new owner, who is running a stock setup that would benefit more from how well it flows, and get a particular new IC that is a different design.

In the meantime, I decided to remove the Greddy IC and swap back to the stock one for now, and start to reinstall the water spray. I didn't want to install the water spray on the Greddy IC because I would have to drill into the shroud to install jets, which I wasn't going to do, and the stock shroud had jets fitted already.

The Greddy core is a monster, with huge tubes

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In contrast, the stock IC is a tiny wee thing

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You'll note there that I had temporarily installed a catch can too. I wanted to see how the blowby was, so threw this in. I was pleasantly surprised to note that the hoses and catch can were completely dry of any oil after a couple of hundred ks, so ended up removing it and reverting to stock.

This gave me a little more room to play with in terms of the IC water spray hoses. I tidied up the hoses that came with the car and reinstalled them.

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The black hose currently runs through the firewall grommet and is looped in the glovebox. This will eventually be run to the boot of the car, where a 5l tank and washer pump are located. This bottle fits almost perfectly, except the cap was a few mm too tall, so I used some heat to squish the top of the bottle down and lower the cap. It'll lower the capacity too, but there should be plenty still, and I can top up between sessions.

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It was interesting to note that as soon as I refit the stock IC again the car felt slower, so it wasn't a placebo, the Greddy IC is good.

After a few weeks of running the stock intercooler, my nice new one arrived. Meet the Suzuki Works Kurume Sports Intercooler.

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It's a really nice bit of kit. The Greddy IC was all welded sheets of Alu, which was nicely made, but this SWK is next level with cast aluminium end tanks.

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Compared to the stock IC the overall dimensions are basically the same, except the core is slightly taller

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The difference is the thickness. This thing is a thicc boi.

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Alto for scale

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The protective cardboard shows how much taller the SWK core is

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Being legit JDM gear, it bolted right in with no fitment issues.

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Now I just needed a shroud.

The SWK intercooler comes with adhesive foam strips to stick to the shroud and close up the stock gaps

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And with the shroud fitted

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You can barely tell from the top, just the little silver end tank gives it away. From the side though, it is a beast

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The main thing here for me is that it means I can run the stock shroud, including the water spray jets. It should also drop temps over the stock IC due to the taller and thicker core.

I haven't really logged temps since fitting it, and the big test will be the next track day which will hopefully be next month. I want to be running 15psi all day and keeping temps under control.

It's hard at this point to say if it's had the same boost in power that the Greddy IC did since I've done some tweaking to the boost controller at the same time. I've had an "issue" where when on 15psi the turbo just makes boost too easily, and it can lead to some surging when driving as it comes on and off boost at the slightest twitch of my foot.

To counter this, I finally set up the RPM and TPS settings on the HKS EVC

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This allowed me to set an offset map. It may need tweaking as I drive it more, but at the moment this is what I have (this is page 1 of 4, the other pages are 60-100% TPS, and 5000rpm-9000rpm).

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Long story short, the vertical axis is the throttle position, and the horizontal is the engine RPM. At low throttle position or low RPM, it makes less boost, increasing as the RPM and/or throttle position increases. This is a percentage of the total target boost, so at 0%/2000rpm it makes 35% of the 15psi target.

The hope is that when I'm cruising at high rpm (ie 4000rpm on the open road) but have a lower throttle position, it won't be so eager to make 15psi with a twitch of the throttle now. It should also be a bit nicer on my engine at low RPM, where it probably doesn't love life having 15psi shoved into it when it's barely spinning.

So far my testing shows it's pretty effective. The car feels a bit less frantic to drive but is far more manageable to drive smoothly when you aren't trying to beat everything from the lights.

I've only set this up for the 15psi setting, as it's not been an issue on 8psi. 18psi may get a map, but I don't tend to use that as 15psi is plenty fast.

This car is pretty much where it needs to be now. I need to finish the IC spray, but otherwise it's ready to hit the track again and see if I can demolish my previous times now that it can go around corners.

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I like turbo cars a lot. You open the intake up, and they make great noises. I wanted more noise from the Alto, but didn't want to pay much.

So what does one do if they want to try a cheap intake, and not import a brand name one from Japan? Hello Supercheap.

The stock intake setup is surprisingly open, with a duct taking air from under the bonnet lip, feeding it through a (currently duct tape) pipe to the top of the airbox, where I have a Greddy panel filter. It goes through this filter, through a pipe and down into the intake of the turbo. Nothing in the way, no real restrictions.

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But I wanted more noise. Since removing the leaking BOV, I'm back to a quiet little chooo when changing gears and almost no intake noise. In contrast, I have a friend with an S660 fitted with an HKS intake and that thing makes all the good noises.

So, I went out and bought some bits. A pod filter on clearance, a 76mm 45 degree alloy pipe, and a 51mm-76mm reducer hose.

I started by removing the airbox. This is pretty straightforward by disconnecting the intake pipe and breather, and removing the two bolts

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Then with some fiddling, I jammed the new contraption into place

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The filter is massive. Not even kidding, it's almost as big as the engine itself.

It took a lot of stuffing around, and a couple of different revisions of the mounting bracket, to get to this point, where the filter had some clearance from the strut brace

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This was not enough clearance though...

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What I hadn't really accounted for was just how much the engine moves under load. Normal driving was fine, but under boost or high loads the engine must tip back a bit more and suddenly the filter was banging its life out on the strut brace, sounding like the car was coming to pieces.

So, other than that, was it worth it? No. I swear the car felt less responsive down low, and the noises were disappointing. The turbo discharge noise on gear changes was excellent, almost as loud as the BOV was, but the actual intake sucking noises really didn't... suck.

Under boost, or load, when you think it would be sucking the most air and real loud, it made no noise. When you were at a steady speed, around 100kph, with minimal throttle, the damn thing would emit a loud sucking noise. You could induce it with certain throttle positions, but it never really made noises when I wanted it to. I got fairly sick of the noise on the open road at cruise.

So, back to the stock intake I went, glad I didn't waste money importing an intake from Japan. I'll find another use for this filter at some point.

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