westy Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 The BMW engines use an electric idle control valve with a separate idle circuit. It's really hard to keep a decent idle on without it (dies when returning from revs). Complicates an ITB manifold quite a bit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanners Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 You think CNC is going to be a whole lot easier than a manual milling machine? My engineer has mills with the computer measurement thingee but they arent computer controlled as such. Cos if he can do it on his machine, I will just get him to make a copy of the ports in that injector plate that the TBs hang off. What about of just using the altezza manifold, cutting the runners really short, then bending/shaping them ever so slightly to suit the new TB flange? From what I have read, the spacing is so close that this might be possible. But I could also be soo soo sooooo wrong. Which would be a first, honest. Im all about saving money. I am only doing quads cos making a new plenum is asking for trouble with a standard ECU, and if I am getting a Link then I am getting Quads. And have option for SC later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 The BMW engines use an electric idle control valve with a separate idle circuit.It's really hard to keep a decent idle on without it (dies when returning from revs). Complicates an ITB manifold quite a bit though. A lot of people just crack the throttles slightly to get it to idle up. It seems to work quite well, I'm the only one that seems to have a bad view on it I don't really have anything for idle on my engine, I drive it only a couple times a year to when its cold I just warm it up sitting on the throttle or just drive it and when its warm, its usually ok, just stalls very occasionally if I let them revs drop from say 4-5krpm to idle. But I am just use to it now, so just automatically give it a quick blip on the throttle when slowing down to keep it alive. If you did want a really nice idle right from cold, the G4 storm will have an output that can do to a simple bosch ICV that you can run. This can be done from the vacuum collection points that you would have put in the intake manifold and it just basically opens these to atmosphere slightly when the engine is about to stall. Spanners, don't worry about any of this to begin with. Just make up the manifold as simple as can be, get it running and then go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanners Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 Its so hard to know where to stop. I really wanted this all done before engine bay paint etc but maybe I should get it all tidied up and painted once all holes are drilled etc, and then get running and go from there. Am speaking to engineer man tonight, will see how far he wants to go with it. Funny thing about the whole conversion in this starlet is that modifying the firewall has the biggest consequences. Everthing else is just bolt on bolt off, but panel work sucks the big one. Especially as cert man doesnt want it painted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Its so hard to know where to stop. Tell me about it! But if you don't take a few compromises you will never have it finished. Here's the manifold we made for my leaned over application: As you can see it uses the factory adapter with no intermediate plate - doing this makes the process a lot quicker and easier. I don't see why you wouldn't use it when making a new manifold. It has the same taper as the port and is perfectly round at the exit which means you don't have to change the shape of your tube before the flange. If you want to go bigger than the standard runner dia it will be easier to machine this out than it will be to make a runner that changes shape - you can use 4 pieces of straight alloy tube and weld it to each flange. This makes it really easy to get the ports matched too as you can bolt the mani to the plate and die-grind until it matches. We made the throttle flange on a normal mill with digital readout - you set up the measurements for one throttle first, then make holes, then find your centre mark and move along to the next one. It took ages to set up but Jase (eke_zetec_rwd) made it look easy. If you're using blacktop throttles you'll need to mill a little extra at the bottom to get the "kidney" shape and can port match both flanges after that. I'm standing my motor up soon and the plan is to do the same thing again with straight runners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanners Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 beams? Fuck those runners are way longer than I want to use. I was hoping for like 50mm... Got any photos of it on the car? I was thinking more like the TRD one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Mines on a lean, so they needed to be like that for clearance. Pic was to explain the style of flange and use of the adapter plate. Going to make it a lot shorter when the engine is stood up with long trumpets. Something more like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanners Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 Oh wow I assumed it would lean the other way. Looks good Cheers for the help, much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Ass Dragger Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Join ToyMods Read This: http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showth ... elica+ra45 http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=40381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celica RA45 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 hi guys just to let you know the new inlets are better ,as i dont heat treat these any more ,and dont machine as much off either . they are the same as a trd inlet about 70mm long total and these bolt straight to the head the trd 1s are balck top quads and if you were thinking of machineing these out ,can only get to 47mm .thats why i made my own of 48 and 50 mm quad throttles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Sounds great Glenn! How much are new inlets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Good to have you on board Glenn, and to see that your still making manifolds. Spanners your sorted if you want a off the shelf manifold it seems! PM away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celica RA45 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 the prices havnt changed still 600 aussie each and 50 extra posted to nz i loose on the postage ,but hey who cares i still have a few u tube vids up at the moment that shows the motor and me having fun around sandown and philip island etc these are under celicara in you tube so take a look glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_m Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 The other option that may work (and i'm purely speculating here, from looking at truenotchs pics) but you could probably get a 20mm bit of alloy water cut and bolt it to the intermidiate part he's used with c'sunk cap screws and then bolt the black tops to that plate and port match the two shapes. Your engineer mate could also easily make it on his manual mill, a profile cut one would just look a little nicer. At a rough guess i'd say $100-150 for the water cutting, Then a couple of hours to tap and c'sink some holes and port match (not sure if you have the tools to do that or not) Though you might be able to find someone on here to help you out with the CAD and or discounts. If you get stuck I could look into it and model something up if you want to go that route but i'd need manifold gaskets for both the itbs and that intermidiate bit or a PDF 1:1 scan of the two bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 One option, that I've seen done for a beams motor in a starlet. Get a FWD manifold, chop off the runners at the flange, then weld it back on the other way around. Makes for a low mount single throttle setup that faces the right way. Next best cost effective option would be getting some flanges cut and some pipes welded between. Better port matching this way too... Cast copy of TRD manifold I got sucks in terms of port matching, is 1-2mm larger all the way round, than the diameter of the ports at the point where it mates to the head. Hope the port matching on your new ones is better Glenn! I've gone back to single throttle because there doesnt seem much point in using a manifold that's likely going to flow worse than the standard one because its got a big step in it. Wouldnt be so bad if the ports were smaller and could machine them out, but dunno how I can fix it with the manifold being too bigger a diameter for the head. Although how much difference it would actually make I dont know, some people have made good power with Glenns manifolds, or maybe I just got unlucky and got a bad one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celica RA45 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 dave you got 1 of the 1st set with heat treatment which made most of them buckle so they tried to machine to straighten them .as you take material of inlet face it makes it bigger ,so this was the problem .it was only the 1st sets of 10 that were made .they are not done this way any more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanners Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 If im using an aftermarket ECU I am using quads. Noise etc I agree that theres no point having a half assed setup though, will make sure its kosher If you have seen a beams starlet then have you (or anyone) got photos? I have never seen one and that has made things fucking hard for me. I looked and looked on the net and couldnt find one, I wondered if there were many out there. Seemed to be a bit of a kentucky fried mouse. Its quite funny, I got the beams instead of F20c to save money. Now I will spend 4k on the beams motor anyway, so would have got a better motor for cheaper with F20. Plus could use std ECU, TB etc, and the motor is smaller, lighter, and inlet is on the right side to not interfere with brakes etc. If anyone is considering beams motor swap in a small car, think twice! Not being a negative cunt, but I reckon the honda engine is a much better piece of machinery overall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celica RA45 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 meant to ask you what happened to your air box design ,as by the time i finished mine ,it came up in 12 litres in volume and im using a super tourer cock in a sock with a 150 mm dia hose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 dave you got 1 of the 1st set with heat treatment which made most of them buckle so they tried to machine to straighten them .as you take material of inlet face it makes it bigger ,so this was the problem .it was only the 1st sets of 10 that were made .they are not done this way any more Aaahh right. Maybe making a spacer to the head would fix it then, that tapers down a bit more for that extra bit. meant to ask you what happened to your air box design ,as by the time i finished mine ,it came up in 12 litres in volume and im using a super tourer cock in a sock with a 150 mm dia hose I've been made redundant by small companies shutting completely down that I've been working at, twice in the last financial year. Car project is as good as dead while I get my finances back on track. If you have seen a beams starlet then have you (or anyone) got photos? I have never seen one and that has made things fucking hard for me. I looked and looked on the net and couldnt find one, I wondered if there were many out there. Seemed to be a bit of a kentucky fried mouse. No I dont have photos sorry... This was about... 5 years ago? I sketched/measured up a quick comparison of manifolds ages ago though http://www.mr2.com/forums/beams-owners- ... rison.html Its quite funny, I got the beams instead of F20c to save money. Now I will spend 4k on the beams motor anyway, so would have got a better motor for cheaper with F20. Plus could use std ECU, TB etc, and the motor is smaller, lighter, and inlet is on the right side to not interfere with brakes etc. If anyone is considering beams motor swap in a small car, think twice! Not being a negative cunt, but I reckon the honda engine is a much better piece of machinery overall Yeah honda engine rules. Still aint easy though... fitting exhaust down the other side is a mish by comparison. Shifter position ends up way gay compared to Altezza box too, and need to wire in dash from S2k too I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanners Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 need to wire in dash from S2k too I think. Awww bummer. That would totally suck I really wanted to use Altezza dash but basically have been told its way too complex. Toyota ftw anyway, Im glad im keeping it pure, not making it a slut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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