CaMpylobacter Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 threw mine out. hah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatestben Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 I got an sc14 for a bluetop and some c5* gearbox mounts. Yay for me, I still need to give you a slap for throwing that sc12 and the gearbox away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 totally.. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAD626 Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 So how much difference between the sc12 and the sc14??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUL8R Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Im not sure about the differences between the two so much, but the Sc12 is designed for the 1600cc engine (4age), and the Sc14 is designed for the 2000cc Engine in Estima's I am led to belive??? So the Sc14 should produce more power due to the greater volume of air it can displace..... Cheers,Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 I didn't actually know the sc14 was found on estimas. Are they running a 1g-gze or something? Thats weird. The 1g-gze came out with the sc14 in mid 80s-90s crowns (not sure of chassis code) and the GZ20 soarers aswell. I'm not sure about supras though. I'm pretty sure they didn't come supercharged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 gs130 crowns etc had sc14 estima superchardged (diesel I think) not g series anywho, pretty sure. almost bout a boso'd one. hah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Glad you didn't, they are super gay man. Diesel turbos are different trim turbines that are unsuitable for high reving petrol engines. I would imagine the same would apply for superchargers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 doubt it. they're rootes type blowers anywho. boso one looks badass, but yuh, as you said, totally would have to go knock up some bitches, CaM dad etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 fuck, thats a scary thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Revhead Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 sc12 = 1.2 litres of displacement pre rev of the charger. sc14 = 1.4 litres. the s/c estimas are petrol 2tz-fze. the charger is the same as the 1g-gze ones, except for some brackets etc on the out side of the housing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismo.capri Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Glad you didn't, they are super gay man. Diesel turbos are different trim turbines that are unsuitable for high reving petrol engines. I would imagine the same would apply for superchargers? It would depend on the bearings/max rpms the blower is designed for. The SC12 and 14 safely max at 10,000 rpms aftere that the rotor coating starts to fall off. Blowers don't have trim like a turbo as they are just a positive displacement pump and the presurisation happens because the blower is moving more air than the engine can flow. Turbines actially compress the air by acclerating it off the tip of the blades by tweaking the blades (trim) it treaks the flow charateristics.... bad explaintaion but I hope it get the idea accross. Some useless history... the classic V8 blower setup used the scavanging pump from a 6-71 2 stroke diesel. It wasn't there to boost but some clever lad thought it would work good as a super charger on his V8. With GMC blowers the numbers actually mean the engine it's off, in this case it's a 6 cylinder and each cylinder has a displacement of 71 cubic inches. If any of you guys know any air craft engineers another old school blower source is the cabin presurisation pump off a plane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Yeah that is a good point. Perhaps turbine characteristics would come into it for the other type of supercharger, the one that looks like a turbo? Can't think of the name right now. Interesting also about the various other chargers you can use. Whats the scavenging pump from one of those detroit d's do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 basically there to help them get the air in/out of them. pretty out of it engines etc. they run a throttle as well for shutting them off. It wasn't uncommon for them to rol a truck, and it to start running on oil that ran out the breather, revs building higher and higher until they exploded etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismo.capri Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Yeah that is a good point. Perhaps turbine characteristics would come into it for the other type of supercharger, the one that looks like a turbo? Can't think of the name right now. Yep the centrifugal blowers are basicly a belt driven turbo. Interesting also about the various other chargers you can use. Whats the scavenging pump from one of those detroit d's do? Like Cam said they just move the charge, not enought to compress it. Here's a cabin pressure pump on a porche from a 747 I think... it was in at DCH motorsport one day I was there... it fried the clutch once it was running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danger Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 Can anyone tell me how to convert to mech secondaries? Just started building a new motor from bottom up, Ported out the head and manifold today and tidied everything up. New rings etc. So at this point specs will be: Ported head. Ported intake manifold extractors through to a 2 inch system High lift cam Will probably plumb in an oil cooler So... How does this setup sound? SC12 or similar, mounted on the LHS alternator mounts for other cars, running single V belt to crankshaft pulley. Standard airbox welded up airtight running a standard paper element with an intake pipe made up to follow down to the SC? All I need to sort now is the carb. What type of webber would be best? I'd rather not go suck through. Oh...and I got a 5 speed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 yea heard horror stories bout the detroits starting to run on there own oil however that what the pump flaps are for they just drop two plates over the mouth of trhe charger and pretty much strangle the engine , i dont think superchargers have trims and can work anywhere , and if someone can explain the trm on turbo what the diff between diesel and petrol or find a writeup much appreciated , guy i worked with has a nissan patrol with a detroit pump on it and a turbo not , but i think he changed the pump quite a bit to get it working properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismo.capri Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Can anyone tell me how to convert to mech secondaries? What carb? Just started building a new motor from bottom up, Ported out the head and manifold today and tidied everything up. New rings etc. So at this point specs will be: Ported head. Ported intake manifold extractors through to a 2 inch system High lift cam Will probably plumb in an oil cooler So... How does this setup sound? Genericly good but the devil is in the detail. Ie what high lift cam... SC12 or similar, mounted on the LHS alternator mounts for other cars, running single V belt to crankshaft pulley. I wouldn't run the single V belt. Standard airbox welded up airtight running a standard paper element with an intake pipe made up to follow down to the SC? All I need to sort now is the carb. What type of webber would be best? I'd rather not go suck through. You need the weber off a Lotus turbo or a lanica turbo as they are dsigned for boost. Oh...and I got a 5 speed.. One of the best upgrades you can do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismo.capri Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 i dont think superchargers have trims and can work anywhere , Positive displacement blowers don't have trims centrafugal do (they are basicly a belt driven turbo so no surprise) and if someone can explain the trm on turbo what the diff between diesel and petrol or find a writeup much appreciated Trim is the ratio of inducer/exducer, it determines where the compressor is the most efficient. Stolen from http://www.rx7club.com/printthread.php?t=345518 RacerXtreme7 09-07-04 02:01 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Inducer / Exducer Inducer / Exducer and how they affect one another.............. First, the basics..... TRIM. Trim is a ratio of inducer vs. exducer of a compressor or turbine wheel. Formula for determining trim: (Minor wheel diameter would be the inducer on a compressor wheel and the exducer would be considered the major diameter. For a turbine the minor and major are called the same (small dia = minor, larger dia. = major) but the inducer of a turbine is the major diameter and the exducer would be the minor or smaller dia. Just think like this.. does the wheel "induce" air or "exduce" it........ [(minor wheel diameter)x(minor wheel diameter) / (major wheel diameter)x (major wheel diameter)] x 100= compressor / turbine wheel trim T04E 60 trim (inducer = 2.290", exducer = 2.950") [(2.290)(2.290)/(2.950)(2.950)] x 100= trim (5.2441/8.7025) x 100= trim .6026 x 100 = trim 60= trim There are trim levels for separate sub families within a series family. EXAMPLE: a T04B 60-1 is a 2.34" inducer and 3.00" exducer wheel, a T04E 60 trim is a 2.29" inducer and 2.950" exducer.... more on the subject a T3 60 trim is a 1.83" inducer and 2.367' exducer. All three comp wheels have a 60 trim. The T3 will NOT flow nowhere near the to4B 60-1 or T04E 60 trim. Also note, even though the T04B 60-1and T04E 60 trim have very close wheel specs, the T04B flows much more, (partly due to the "B" width {b-width is blade height}). Now with that said.. I'm going to generalize some aspects on how inducer vs. exducer affect one another and refer only to compressor wheels and NOT turbine. There are other factors I'll ignore for ease of discussion like overall size of the compressor, B-width, mach numbers, back sweep etc. Your inducer is a good place to start to determine a turbo's general power potential for moving air since this is were the air is "introduced' to the turbo system. Larger the inducer the larger amount of air can be swallowed. (again, there’s many other factors like blade design, angle of attack, number of blades, etc.). The larger the inducer the more power it takes to spin it up also (lag) because with each rotation its swallowing up more air so the harder the turbine would have to work. The exducer is were the air that has entered the compressor axially from the inducer gets slung out radially by the exducer blades and gets compressed as it enters the snail or scroll of the compressor housing. The larger the exducer the higher the tips speed for a given turbine shaft speed, so the faster and more compressed the air gets slung out. Generally, the smaller the trim number (smaller trim = bigger difference between the inducer and exducer, larger trim number = closer in size between the inducer and exducer) the more effient the turbo will be at higher pressure ratios. The larger the trim the more air the turbo can move, but will not be as effient at higher pressure ratios. It’s always a trade off. This is why it’s really important to be able to read compressor maps and match the turbo to your engine needs and performance goals. Fortunately for many, most of this leg work and math have been done and all you have to do is ask knowledgeable people on the forum to get the answers. As I stated above, the larger the inducer the more lag or longer spool-up time will be realized. BUT, with a larger exducer (with same size inducer) an interesting thing happens. In certain circumstances your spool-up time can DECREASE. This is due impart to the tip speed of the larger exducer is faster for the same shaft speed as the smaller exducer comp wheel. The higher tip speed flings the air out with more force. This only works in moderation and in the smaller to mid sized framed turbo compressors (t3 – T4 sized). There is diminishing returns in this phenomenon. So don’t expect to place a 3 inch inducer monster turbo on your ride with an 8 inch exducer and expect it to spool like a stocker. This is practiced quit frequently in hybrid or (HiFlo) stock/upgraded turbos. The turbo shop will “up-grade†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 that is exactly what i wanted to know cheers nismo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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