First time attempt at +T

[MACKAZ]

Poke fun at me, whatever. I'm toying with the idea of putting a blow through carb setup on my dirty old 4.0l intech. 

Ive been told the vacuum secondary carb isn't really suitable so I've got a "broken" 750 double pumper coming and was going to pull the backend off and put that on my freshly kitted 600. I'm also aware that it will require nitrophyl floats. Check. 

So, turbo. Thinking of using some chingaling turbo. Turboforums reckons I'll need a 60-65mm intake side, but seem a little reluctant to offer any recommendation of what I need. I have zero intention of doing anything to the engine and only want to run 5-8psi maximum. Its mainly for shock factor than anything else, power gain is secondary. 

I am after recommendations for fuel pump and regulator, turbo, waste gate and bov. 

I'll make the top hat myself out of sheet alloy. 

Ridicule me now

Thank you

 

 

[shrike]

Personally wouldn't bother with a BOV to start with, wastegate wise if you get one with an internal gate it would probably be fine (4-5psi and adjust up as required via a controller), otherwise the chinese wastegates are fine if you pull them apart and then reassemble them (checking for quality issues) depending on budget of course, otherwise most brand name stuff would be fine (turbosmart, Tial, GFB etc)

I am not super up on carb turbo setups, but assuming anything low pressure high flow would work well from an electric pump perspective and anything to maintain the pressure your carb needs from a regulation perspective 

For a 4L and low boost I would say the bigger the wastegate the better, however the Barra turbos do ok with the internal gate at low boost, so maybe something GT35 size, you will probably need a collection of jets etc to dial in the carb

Are you going to intercool it?

[MACKAZ]

15 minutes ago, shrike said:

Are you going to intercool it?

Possibly, but am trying to keep that away the front

[cletus]

When I originally built the blow thru setup on my valiant I converted a 650dp holley to blow through using this guide

https://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru.html

 

Currently I have a modified demon 650 which has some external hoses to make the power valve work better 

I'd be very surprised if you can use the parts from a 750dp to convert a 600vs , they are quite different carbs 

I used a china m+h wastegate from sta parts which worked fine, I pulled it off once to change springs and the nut had come off the top of the valve but it still worked fine, I loctited it and never had another problem 

Fuel pump was a Bosch 044

 You need a pump that can do carb pressure plus however much boost you run so that means you cant use a low pressure pump

I use a aeromotive rising rate fuel press reg 

 

 

If you are starting with an engine that has efi factory, I think it would be cheaper, easier and work way better to mod the efi system to work with a turbo. 

I dont think a blow through system is cheaper to build really  

 

[MACKAZ]

Thanks for input @cletus, I was hoping you'd pipe in. I've spoken to some speedway engine builder/tuners and they say the conversion can be done, if not I'll use the 750, I don't care. I have a dislike of computers when it comes to Ford 4.0l, they just smother any performance out of them. Its running carb and dizzy now, not going backward.

Also it's to prove I can do it to the old man, he hasn't got one to work.... 

[cletus]

A turbo off a xr6 might be a good option then you dont have to dick around with an external gate  

[MACKAZ]

That was an option I was thinking of. I can also use a barra manifold and rotate 4 5 and 6 port plates

[cletus]

I dont mean to dump shit on your ideas, and I may be wrong

But I think you may run into issues using a big carb with your intake manifold design and boost 

 

ie having a large 4 barrel carb with a small opening underneath it, when boost/high air flow starts happening,  if theres a restriction underneath the carb then that may upset the venturi effect? 

 

 

 

If you are after the look, and not so much performance, and no intercooler,   have you considered a suck through system? 

Would be a lot simpler as you dont have to do as much to the carb, the big headache is the turbo needs a special seal to deal with vacuum  

[MACKAZ]

I had actually thought of that as well, but the whole seal changing sounds like a clusterfuck. 

The other forum liked the idea of 2 tdo5s, but I'd imagine that's twice the headache, but it would be pretty different. 

I had intentions of getting it to run as it is (manifold) and if it kinda works go whole hog and chop the guts out of the manifold under the "spacer", and weld it directly onto the manifold. 

My reasoning is I know it works as it is, and blazing in with the grinder and hacking a good manifold seems a little counterproductive. 

[cletus]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motortrend.com/how-to/build-blow-carb-less-50/amp

Another article on carb mods 

[MACKAZ]

I've actually got the hangar18 link and that link on my home pages on my phone. 

It's really an experiment to see if it will work

 

[kyteler]

I mean...

Are you sure it is?

 

Because you know it will work.  It's been done before.

Sounds more to me like a "all my toys are locked away in storage at the moment and I have ants in my pants to fuck with something" experiment...

[MACKAZ]

10 minutes ago, kyteler said:

I mean...

Are you sure it is?

 

Because you know it will work.  It's been done before.

Sounds more to me like a "all my toys are locked away in storage at the moment and I have ants in my pants to fuck with something" experiment...

Got it in one, wise one! 

[drftnmaz]

I'd use a barra turbo and port the gate hole a little, they have factory 5psi gate actuator and sorta suit the engine size, just the manifold could be a pain...
Then malpassi low pressure rising rate reg
Electric fuel pump and large return line (often we would use ballast resisters to drop voltage to 10V to reduce efi pump flow to suit low presure)
Carb needs mod to equalize pressure in fuel bowl under boost
I'd use a BOV, even a factory one, recycle it if you don't like the noise

biggest problem IMO is timing, without being able to control timing then you have to pick the best compromise, which in turn slowly wears out your engine, but this may takes years to wear so often not mentioned...

barras have 2 versions of turbo, a 3576 and a 3582, I'd prefer the 3582 for a 4L(as it has a 60mm inducer) but If you wanna use a china turbo then post up ones your looking at and i'll have a look through them

[MACKAZ]

I don't give two shits about the long block, owes me $2. Im not expecting 500hp, 200wrhp will suit me fine. From what I have read elsewhere the ports are very close, (near enough for a low buck Ratrod) so I'll get a n/a one (or at least a gasket) and check it for myself

[cletus]

18 minutes ago, drftnmaz said:

biggest problem IMO is timing, without being able to control timing then you have to pick the best compromise, which in turn slowly wears out your engine, but this may takes years to wear so often not mentioned...

 

I did see a budget turbo setup in nz on a big block Chrysler,  where they modified a vac advance unit on the distributor to work backwards somehow, so it retarded timing under boost  , might be something to look into 

 

22 minutes ago, drftnmaz said:

Electric fuel pump and large return line (often we would use ballast resisters to drop voltage to 10V to reduce efi pump flow to suit low presure)
 

That's a good idea, when the fuel level got low in mine the fuel would start getting hot, especially driving slow in summer, from doing heaps of laps from the tank to the engine bay and back  

[RUNAMUCK]

I dunno about with a rising rate reg, but a mate recommended using the second discharge off my reg plugged with a 60 thou oriface as a return so the internal bypass in the pump (Holley blue)  didn't overheat the gas from thrashing it around.  It was a lot of pump for a 1500cc motor though.

 

[Valiant]

425 impco gas carb, E model convertor with a boost reference.

Put the gas carb in front of your efi throttle plate with a silicone reducer. Job done.

Bonus high octane fuel to boot.

 

 

 

 

There's a 425 and E model on trade me at the moment for $300. I think it includes a tank.

[Valiant]

https://fuelsforum.rasoenterprises.com/viewtopic.php?t=75

Pushrod 250ci on dual fuel.

[drftnmaz]

23 hours ago, MACKAZ said:

I don't give two shits about the long block, owes me $2. Im not expecting 500hp, 200wrhp will suit me fine. From what I have read elsewhere the ports are very close, (near enough for a low buck Ratrod) so I'll get a n/a one (or at least a gasket) and check it for myself

ok fair enough, if you can get the manifold to line up and seal then it's a solid start, (but easy enough to build a J pipe from factory manifold and fit turbo in a more suitable place? like the boot? haha) the ford turbos hold their value so prob $600-1k to get a genuine garrett so it might be out of the budget for such a build?
I don't have much experience with china turbos but i'd say any of the 'GT35's with big ex housings would work well (ford has 1.06 rear housing from factory) I'll keep a eye out on trademe and next time i'm out bulk buying turbos and see if i spot anything to suit a 4L

As for Vac retard of the timing under boost, i have also heard of people doing this but it can be hard to find a multi-direction diaphram to suit, early non computer turbo stuff would be the go for this, cordia/charade carb turbo etc, have heard the mazda b6t (even tho it's efi) may have but never checked.