mikuni Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 As per this thread about RCA options for my track car, I'm now looking at another option. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23201&hilit=RCA I've always known of welding to a cast iron component to be a no-no, but that it is possible if done using the correct methods. The dodgy drift boys have been attempting such things on critical suspension/steering components for the last few years with good results. These components would no doubt be under high stress. http://csgarage.wordpress.com/2010/02/2 ... -knuckles/ http://garageslipway.wordpress.com/2010 ... ckle-tech/ http://www.driftworks.com/forum/technic ... ation.html http://www.roadsterdrift.com/home/?p=1248 http://csgarage.wordpress.com/category/corolla/page/2/ I know it seems a bit dodgy, but I haven't seen a single failure on all the pages I've been researching of this, so it is possibly worth trying. As the part I would be altering on my vehicle would be a highly loaded component I would like to do three and crack test them all, then test one to destruction to ensure it will be fully capable of handling in excess of the required load. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzstato Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I take it you are wanting to shift the position of the steering knuckle as well? Is there not enough meat on the arm to mill a flat section and drill a hole. Otherwise I see no reason why you cant do he welding on a track car, getting them crack tested would be a good bet too. What where you intending to weld them with? Mig/tig/arc/gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 So you want to move the height of the steering knuckle, or hori up the hub to lower the mounting point of the lower ball joint? Just mill up some custom alloy hubs bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Technically yes it's doable as those results prove - the first hurdle is getting ok from whatever technical person(s) neccesary, i.e. certifier or MSNZ persons etc. so to make them happy I would imagine you will need to detail what you want to do - cut and and shut what parts of the knuckle probably with a drawing or details sketch showing what and where and how much. you need to know what material the knuckle is made of with some certainty to then be able to determine what filler material weld procedure etc. is appropriate (which should really use pre heat and possibly post weld heat treatment) and then a suitable form of crack testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 or hori up the hub to lower the mounting point of the lower ball joint? This one. Technically yes it's doable as those results prove - the first hurdle is getting ok from whatever technical person(s) neccesary, i.e. certifier or MSNZ persons etc. Track only car, so certification is not required and as far as I'm aware, MSNZ doesn't look at this sort or thing at all so shouldn't be an issue here either. More for my own piece of mind, but also if something like this did fail on the track and put myself or others at risk, I'm sure MSNZ would pay attention to dodgy workmanship then. What where you intending to weld them with? Mig/tig/arc/gas? I don't know the first thing about welding, so will be taking advice from the engineer who will be doing the work for me, but it will likely be TIG welded from the brief research I've done, assuming he is happy with this. Just looking to see what the feel is, if people have seen this sort of thing turn to crap in a big way, or if theres any feedback on more good experiences etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanfels Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 So you would need to add metal to bring the lower arm ball joint down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepers Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 it will be sweet if you do these simple things, pre heat the part/parts to about 250 degrees before welding, get the part normalised after welding, crack test the part (with a penetrate die, no need to remove from the car if access is OK) every 5000K's profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 What control arms are you running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJZ Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Just re-read your original thread, just out of interest I had HBI make new ball joints for my car that were approx 10 - 15mm longer to help with the roll centre on my car. They said that they do this all the time and make the ball joints for the V8 Supercars like this. Cast steel and cast iron are two different things as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtYnIgMa Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 you can weld cast steel. ive welded cast steel pivot parts on our t rex scraper before. cast iron is totaly different its brittle. requires heating. youl be sweet welding cast steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Cast steel and cast iron are two different things as well. Yeah I know. I always refer to cast steel as cast iron, but in this case the difference is important so I thought I would state steel as it is a decent grade material. Just re-read your original thread, just out of interest I had HBI make new ball joints for my car that were approx 10 - 15mm longer to help with the roll centre on my car. They said that they do this all the time and make the ball joints for the V8 Supercars like this. I did a dummy up of everything last night and I need about 80mm depending on what lower control arm I use. A little more if I retain the factory arm to save money, but I could reduce it to as little at 20mm if I fabricate custom lower control arms and raise the pivot point on the chassis/subframe of these. To be honest I think this is going too far for my budget and setup ability at this stage, because a 3 way adjustable lower control arm on each side will blow my mind for caster/camber/toe setup and I'll probably make the car handle like a sack of proverbial. What control arms are you running? As above, not sure but probably factory Vectra A arms with slightly modified Vectra B balljoint or a pillow ball and billet extension. it will be sweet if youprofit. Thanks fat man. Your input is very much appreciated and trusted. Now go back to your lunch pie stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 any chance you can run the Vectra C arms? From what i've found: Opel Vectra B: Opel Vectra C: There would be more meat to weld a threaded tube section into the arm and use rose joints / spherical bearings in the arms. Not sure on the metal thickness of the B arms, or if would be ok to weld in a threaded section into the arms... someone here could maybe answer that. Might be able to make something like this in this thread (http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.ph ... 5861&st=20) using top hat spacers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 any chance you can run the Vectra C arms? Not without modifications and it would offer no real advantage in this case. Even the Vectra B arms won't fit the A, despite being a more similar platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Sorry hit reply before i finished posting. I was trying to figure out if you could turn your arms into something like this: I'm trying to find the images of the modified factory arms that are basically the same as the above image it's proving hard to remember where it is. Vectra A: Could you Spherical bearing the ball joint and top bush, and then use a solid alloy bush for the lower mount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Could you Spherical bearing the ball joint and top bush, and then use a solid alloy bush for the lower mount? I could do this, but by the time I hack up the standard pressed steel lower control arms (or B/C arms) it would be easier to just fabricate some custom tubular ones - would be stronger and probably lighter too. Then, they would look similar to the first picture in the above post, and I would want to mount them not in the original mounting points but on top of the lower subframe, similar to what the guys did with the original touring cars. This would help with the roll centre issue. Once I've done all that I'd probably be about a grand down just for the rose joints, pillow bushings and other parts and that's before putting it altogether. Then I have the adjustability issues that I spoke about earlier - too much! I agree it would be a perfect solution long term, but I'm just seeing if there are any other cheaper, easier and more straight forward solutions at the moment. Cutting, extending and welding the bottom of 2 hub assemblies seems like a heck of a lot less work if its legit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsspeed Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You can't do what Grant Te Rito did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 You can't do what Grant Te Rito did? I can but he extended his balljoints by 20mm and at this stage I need 80mm. I think it's just far too extreme to get all in the balljoint. I may end up doing a mix of everything - lifting the control arms/subframe, extending the balljoints and also extending the hub iteself to try and get the 80mm or so that is required. This is a tie rod, but its a good example of the rose joint and billet extension option that is probably favourable over the extended balljoint option. I dummied this kind of thing on the car last night with 80mm and it still didn't put the control arm parrallel. It gave me the sh*ts too, tbh. Just doesn't feel right, as I think it will create a shear point at the top of the ball joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Use a factory alignment setup with the adjustable setup. Wouldn't it make more sense to do it once properly, if your going to be going to that setup later anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Use a factory alignment setup with the adjustable setup.Wouldn't it make more sense to do it once properly, if your going to be going to that setup later anyways? I'd never get anywhere if I aim too high and I don't want this to be a $20k or $30k project. I have to draw the line of budget in each area - $3-4k spent in this area, a link ecu, custom throttles, slicks, carbon parts, all the safety gear I mean people are pushing 3 layer suits now and one of them starts at $2k. I got told yesterday by P&H suspension that a basic clubsport car should have a budget of $6k for the suspension. $2k will only get shocks and springs done. Some people are stupid. Realistically I know I'm being stupid in this case too, but for another reason. All of this will offer very little actual benefit, it just allows me to run a very low ride height, which is the key aspect of the build that I am going for. I know a well setup package using original suspension points, decent springs and suited billstein or similar shocks will probably out handle this car once it's done, but thats not the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hahaha all good then. My torsion bars where 1k =;-( - i'll be one of the stupid people spending 6k. You can do a cheaper 3 layer by 2 layer + flameproof undies. i've been looking and you can get a 3 layer for $1500 from some places. Otherwise if your not tooo fused on having big name gear there are some good packages done by the nz manufacturers Vortex and Chicane for 2 layer suits. $950 - Chicane - http://www.chicane.co.nz/productdetails ... ryID=11&b= $845 - Vortex - http://vortexracewear.com/default.asp?a ... oduct&id=9 Underwear package is $199 at chicane for their basic white set, $399 for their CarbonX black stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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