mikuni Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 That sounds like a feasible plan. Where did the $8k come from though? You'd be able to do a plug and play throttle kit for less than $5k, so does the engine package cost $3k+? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Engine, gearbox, custom top mount, altered bottom mount, hoses, wiring, Link Ecu, throttles, manifiolds (intake + exhaust), etc... I was think 5-6k + overrun costs + rework... It's still not that common a conversion so there isn't any off the shelf conversion parts it all needs to be custom. The Mi16 XU9j4 was in production in 87 and the EW10J4S was done in 2000. The EW is the evolution of the XU series and uses a lot of the same traits... One small point of concern is that it's sits at 15 degree's vs 30 degress so it's a taller engine once it's mounted and sits a little bit lower that the XU engines which means less ground clearance... so a strong sump guard or dry sump would be needed for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Does the sump have anything else apart from that wall? It seems pretty basic. Have a search for sweet wrx wet sumps - they often don't run trap doors and still work really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 It sounds like a good idea in theory, but will it definitely solve the oiling issues? Do you know of any super fast 306's or whatever that have run Hampton without failure? Also, if it's so tall that it may cause issues and require a dry sump, would it not be better to freshen up a motor like you have at the moment and put throttles a link and dry sump on it? Would easily do that for 8k and not have any of the unknowns that go along with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 There is a matching wall attached to the pump and its extended forward. The capacity of the extension is about 900ml. The engine is notorious for oil surge/starvation issues then only real solution is to run a dry sump setup. It was working fine until the revits failed. The head is known for holding oil as the drains arnt big enough. With the Gti-6 engine they addresses some of these issues (high pressure oil pump spring, different pump speeds, block alteration, head alteration) but the EW engine really had a massive redesign to help resolve the issue. There are a lot of different baffle system you can get for them including drop in plate systems that restrict flow, but a trapdoor setup is better than that. The Mi's are getting hard to find, looking towards the future I'm better looking at the EW series where the gti engine was in a lot of cars imported to NZ - the Mi's are starting to get harder to find even in the UK. The gti vs gti 180 engine debate has started on the 205 gti drivers last year with a lot of pointing towards the gti is a better engine to start with as with the smaller ports its a better development platform and can be easier to tailor to the needs of the racing environment the cars in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 It sounds like a good idea in theory, but will it definitely solve the oiling issues? Do you know of any super fast 306's or whatever that have run Hampton without failure? Also, if it's so tall that it may cause issues and require a dry sump, would it not be better to freshen up a motor like you have at the moment and put throttles a link and dry sump on it? Would easily do that for 8k and not have any of the unknowns that go along with it. The engine isn't any taller just it sits at a different angle, the oil control might actually be better because of this as there is potentially more oil in the sump as the sump itself can be more equal in length front to back while maintaining flat bottom. I'm not aware of any 306's that have done hamptons on semis but with there improvements I would expect to see any failures unless they where on semis and stiffened suspension wise... It's very unlikely they will fail on road tyres... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Yeah, well that's what I'm saying. And many engines have problems, not just leaning engines. It would be dumb to go to all of this trouble and still blow it up at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Brad - have a read of the http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=135735 - btw Sandy is a professional race engine builder in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 yeah xu9j4 engines are shit. dry sumping is the only surefire way of not running out of oil pressure. 405s blow them up, 205s and 309s are even worse as they corner a lot harder. xu10 engines aren't so bad but they're a wee bit heavier? though of grabbing one of the milllllllllllions of cheap gti6s that have been coming up recently and doing a conversion? sell the 6spd to some joker for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and win? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 nah if i'm going to go through the hassle of a non-Mi motor then i'll go the EW, the more i read the more i am convinced its the right move... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBreeze Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I have a hunch the xu9j4 oiling issues is mainly due to oil returns rather than sump baffling. People baffle them and still have huge issues, I'd like to see results of running some decent external drains from the head and see how that helps. It is kind of weird they have such issues seeming the motor was designed with racing in mind from the get-go. EW's are all good but a lot more work than an XU. Also have less overall potential due to small cam buckets. I'm just about to put an xu10j4rs into my 205, I bought a crashed gti6 for $600 (which is what I also sold the 6 speed for). You can't get better value for money than that. Fingers crossed I don't have oil surge issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 gti6 engines don't have quite the same problems. have thought of that regarding head draining also. if you see people running the rocker cover breather straight into a catch can rather than going down via the normal oil filler/seperator thing they tend to fill their cans with oil fairly swiftly so it may be an indicator they're filling the top of the head with all of the oils. 4ages used to have a similar issue IIRC and people used to add external drains to the head to alleviate it so there's potential it's worth looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakesae101 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 gti6 engines don't have quite the same problems. have thought of that regarding head draining also. if you see people running the rocker cover breather straight into a catch can rather than going down via the normal oil filler/seperator thing they tend to fill their cans with oil fairly swiftly so it may be an indicator they're filling the top of the head with all of the oils. 4ages used to have a similar issue IIRC and people used to add external drains to the head to alleviate it so there's potential it's worth looking at? later smallport redtops had external oil drains from the factory if my memory serves me correctly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 winder if there's an easy way to add a test external drain to an mi head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 winder if there's an easy way to add a test external drain to an mi head. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 hah! totally should tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBreeze Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 You should test it Cam. I guess motor has to be out though. Easiest place to put some fittings in would be above the exhaust ports through to just above the cam buckets. I have a clean bare xu10 306 s16 head here and there are only two decent oil drains, one at each end of the head. Not really enough for my liking. Could also explain why they are super prone to leaking oil out the valve cover. Also possible that prolonged revs + hydraulic buckets don't help the situation - with a solid conversion you can restrict the oil feed to the head. The drains are closer to the centre of the head which would mean it could still pool a decent amount of oil seeming the motor is on a 30degree lean. I can take some pictures if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I'd be keen to test it. Its the reason i stopped driving my 205. It just suckes i cant even go round a decent corner without getting oil surge. I gotta pull the head too as its starting to smoke like a fronte. Perfect oppertunity. Will probably start this work in december. Rob, you kean to rebuild head for me and add some drains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 /lump cams and 45s you say? ooh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Voldo, it's not just the head thats the issue, the oil return paths are very small on the side of the block. It's really a combination of things vs just one thing. A few guys have put scavenging pumps on the head to assist. The hydro lifters on the XU are rock solid upto 7500rpm after that you can get lifter float with them. The bottom end factory is good for 8000rpm all day long... There is a LOT of threads on the 205 GTI drivers site about the oil issues and what to do to reduce the effect of what is basically a design flaw. You can see the improvements with the XU10 vs the XU9 blocks for the oil returns. The cam followers are 2 different sizes on the EW10J4(RS) / EW12J4 heads: - EW10J4 (140PS) 1997cc, 85mm bore and 88mm stroke, 45mm big ends, 212.5mm block height, 33mm inlet and 29mm exhaust, 28.4mm cam followers- EW10J4S (180PS) 1997cc, 85mm bore and 88mm stroke, 45mm big ends, 212.5mm block height, 35mm inlet and 31mm exhaust valves, 30mm cam followers, variable cam phasing control- EW12J4 2231cc, 86mm bore and 96mm stroke, 50mm big ends, 221.5mm block height, 35mm inlet and 31mm exhaust valves, 28.4mm cam followers, variable cam phasing control Have a read of the link i posted for Brad about the EW series - it really is just a much better engine overall vs the XU series, which is why i'm going to move to it. Let alone the fact the XU9's are getting old, hard to find, and expensive... Have a look at these threads: https://www.google.co.nz/search?client=opera&q=oil+drain+head+site:205gtidrivers.com&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.