durty Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 hay boes so after trackday i want to get the 360 handling a bit meaner, main problem being the rear end stz, it just needs to be stiffer i feel, i was going to lower it by means of blocks but was wondering what my other options were seeing as its just a single leaf can i get it reset and leafs added or not? if im too add leafs what needs to be done? and then get it blocked to a good height? would that work? and front i was thinking stiff new shortened shocks and some stiffer springs and a bigger swaybar? would that make it handle a bit better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggo Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Oh fuck, That reminds me about the block will find em for you tomorrow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durty Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 haha, dont worry boe, just bought some sexy ones of tm. any1 able to help out with this stz cos on the net they all just seem to go to escort live axle stz but mega unkeen to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozin Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Depends how you want it to handle? Generally speaking, if you have a car, and stiffen up the rear, it'l turn in better and you'll reduce understeer. Take the same car (in it's previous state) and stiffen up the front, and you'll have something that'l understeer. That's how you fix oversteer issues, obviously. Stiffer = applies to roll stiffness, as well as shocks and springs. Personally I would start with new bushes, it's incredible the difference a fresh set of bushes can make to a cars characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTERUS Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Fibreglass leaf springs, rscort loves these things. True story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Do you have a rear anti roll bar? If not, is there a variant of the car that does? Will make the biggest difference to increasing the rear roll stiffness and prevent you having to go uber-hard on the rear end to control roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozin Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Do you have a rear anti roll bar? If not, is there a variant of the car that does? Will make the biggest difference to increasing the rear roll stiffness and prevent you having to go uber-hard on the rear end to control roll. And then you can maintain rear traction too... assuming the might 360 has traction problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Definitely look at harder/extra/etc leaves, before considering lowering blocks. (lowering blocks wont stop it from tipping... might make it worse if it messes with roll centre?) A panhard rod setup could help a bit too, I've heard that it can make quite a positive difference for a leave spring rear, doesnt stop your car from tipping if the spring rate is no good, but stops the arse end from wobbling around on the springs. (which could be more of a problem with lowering blocks, depending on size?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bistro Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 A panhard rod pretty sure this is leaf sprung IRS so a no go here. crazy volovosovooso. bushes, anti roll, reset and additional lamination would be a go. its a one leaf pack right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 A panhard rod setup could help a bit too, Surely the rear end is located with a watts-linkage already? Or at least I'd have thought it was.. but yeah, if it's not got any form of anti-roll, you're better off stopping it rolling by adding some rather than trying to just stiffen the heck outta it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Does anyone have any decent links to handling information for various suspension setups etc? You seem to hear so many contradictory statements in this area on the internet about rear end stiffness and anti-roll type stuff and how it affects under/oversteer. Combined with the fact that, like anything automotive related, everyone has a different way of doing things this stuff can get very confusing very fast. I know theres some good material out there in book form but thats too expensive/difficult to get hold of and generally its for the more common setups like mcpherson strut and leaf sprung rear ends than techniques that would apply to the wishbone setup, especially with a torque tube coil rear. Al the chappies in the race scene also seem to keep their secrets closely guarded too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 A panhard rod pretty sure this is leaf sprung IRS so a no go here. crazy volovosovooso. bushes, anti roll, reset and additional lamination would be a go. its a one leaf pack right? WTF?! Is it a transverse leaf spring, like corvettes? or springs running down the length of the car? Weird! A panhard rod setup could help a bit too, Surely the rear end is located with a watts-linkage already? Or at least I'd have thought it was.. but yeah, if it's not got any form of anti-roll, you're better off stopping it rolling by adding some rather than trying to just stiffen the heck outta it. nope! Most leaf spring setups that I've seen just rely on the springs to locate the diff in that direction. edit: like this http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c17/NZGT/4197e05b.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durty Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 A panhard rod pretty sure this is leaf sprung IRS so a no go here. crazy volovosovooso. bushes, anti roll, reset and additional lamination would be a go. its a one leaf pack right? WTF?! Is it a transverse leaf spring, like corvettes? or springs running down the length of the car? Weird! its like a normal leaf spring except diff is mounted to the body independent stz and then it has a massive tube linking the 2 sides. pics here kindof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durty Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 also, the main problem i was having at the track is that it was understeering hard into corners and then frying the inside wheel coming out of the corners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyteler Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 de Dion boe! Are you sure it wasn't your approach to the corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozin Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I generally only regurgitate any info that I've had first hand experience with... and even then it's only FWD stuff I've mucked around with. Have been mucking around with the ITR extensively in the past few weeks in the hope I could make it to trackday. I found the biggest influence on making it turn in crisply was adding some toe out to the rear... it can get a bit skittery under heavy braking however. Meh. Crank up the damping on the rear shocks and it becomes a predictable oversteerer too... as I found out on the weekend. Some of the Honda guys go hard with HUGE rear swaybars but I can't see why, mine suffers from a bit of roll but I don't think I've sacrificing any traction because of it... it'l only light up the front wheels in 2nd gear corners, and there aren't that many of those in the ITR due to short gearing. Durty - to me it sounds like increasing your rear roll stiffness will help moonbeams. If you're understeering on entrance, it's a sign the rear is too soft, and it's picking up the inside and spinning it due to roll... Mikuni - mean grounding on suspension theory = "How to Make Your Car Handle" by Fred Puhn. Old publication now, but it's a really really good grounding, covers everything from street set ups, to autocross... and all sorts. Deals with heaps of Datsuns I've got a copy somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Does anyone have any decent links to handling information for various suspension setups etc?You seem to hear so many contradictory statements in this area on the internet about rear end stiffness and anti-roll type stuff and how it affects under/oversteer. Combined with the fact that, like anything automotive related, everyone has a different way of doing things this stuff can get very confusing very fast. I know theres some good material out there in book form but thats too expensive/difficult to get hold of and generally its for the more common setups like mcpherson strut and leaf sprung rear ends than techniques that would apply to the wishbone setup, especially with a torque tube coil rear. Al the chappies in the race scene also seem to keep their secrets closely guarded too suspention is a very personal thing ...its all down to what works well with your style of driving bring over the chevette if yoru unhappy with somethign and ill see what we can do to fix it for ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 A panhard rod pretty sure this is leaf sprung IRS so a no go here. crazy volovosovooso. bushes, anti roll, reset and additional lamination would be a go. its a one leaf pack right? WTF?! Is it a transverse leaf spring, like corvettes? or springs running down the length of the car? Weird! its like a normal leaf spring except diff is mounted to the body independent stz and then it has a massive tube linking the 2 sides. pics here kindof i can see from yoru piccy that you do have room to change yoru setup to give you somethign a little more ...versatile fryign the inside wheel is a lack of a lsd and a lot of weight shift have you got toe ajust ment on the rear ? IMO humble opinion i woudl look at lowering...alignment setup....swaybars and tracrods if all that fails...its time to get into more engineering to give you the ajustments you need to make the car do what you want some more detailed pics of the hub atactment points etc will help a lot more just snap teh shit otu of the rear and front end and post em up will help a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 nope! Most leaf spring setups that I've seen just rely on the springs to locate the diff in that direction. Fair enough... I guess that most of the settings I've dealt with have also had some kind of lateral linkage. de Dion setup makes it a little different, but you still want to look at improving roll stiffness. One good book to look at with regards to what suspensions setups to use is "Race car vehicle dynamics" by Milliken and Milliken... this book is the bible, read it, know it and ye shall be forever knowledgable! (I've not read all of it yet... it's a weighty tome) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 nope! Most leaf spring setups that I've seen just rely on the springs to locate the diff in that direction. Fair enough... I guess that most of the settings I've dealt with have also had some kind of lateral linkage. de Dion setup makes it a little different, but you still want to look at improving roll stiffness. One good book to look at with regards to what suspensions setups to use is "Race car vehicle dynamics" by Milliken and Milliken... this book is the bible, read it, know it and ye shall be forever knowledgable! (I've not read all of it yet... it's a weighty tome) fantastic book ...also recomend it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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