mikuni Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Mean. Been doing hardout reading up of race styles on many engines. Learning some mean stuff, like: Placing 2nd set of injectors outside TB's to allow fuel a longer time to mis properly. Controlled by ECU to drop out first set and ramp up 2nd as revs climb. Also using ECU to stop alt from charging at higher rpm to save losses. Reading up on intake runner length and how the pulse reacts, then how to make best use of that pulse to cram air in. Throttle and intake areas to benifit different applications. Cam duration, profile and lift infomation and what the max I can get from my engine is. All this things I should have done differently while doing the conversion but hindsight is a wonderful thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 yea second set of injectors on top of throttles is worth a few hp but having the room to set is the problem. Megasquirt extra code has teh mean injector staging system. Also with resonance tuning your almost always going to be catching the second or third reflection theres no basic all aplication formula. Used this street dyno before which measures the time between spark pulses to tell if acceleration has been improved thus giving you a basic as dyno plot. works mean for seeing if trumpets or your tune change the power. Can give close to real world figures if you accurately put in the weight, drive ratios etc tis a mean tool seen guys dial in cam timing with it got it pretty bang on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thminiman Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 ohyuh, brad, ive got some 45 sidey ram toobs that you can borrow quickly to try out or some stz, CaM would need to grab that shit from gman and post to you however. only two tho, i picked mine up for 45 bucks for a pair, second hand, and the socks, NOS sorta stz for free, but they sell as pairs on tardme for 60 bucks i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Oh out of it. I have some lined up to test fit tomorrow. See if I'm on the right track with 45m dcoe ones then I'll know what I can and can't use. Cheers though. That street dyno shit sounds out of it. Makes sense but you don't really have a reference point or anything to gauge the power you are making. You are just playing around with different stuff untill you get the spark pulses as close as possible? You could just about plot that on a graph as a power curve too aye? They should be steadily increasing in rate/gap decreasing. edit: gay. Probably should have got megasquirt haha. Ahwell, link tuning is sweet. I'm pretty sure link won't be able to stage injectors aye. I reckon with the angle up of the manifold you could mount a fuel rail with injectors near the end of the throttles and just have the tips of the injectors poking in through the socks. Would look crack up as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 basically the weight of the car is the reference takes x amount of torque to move x weight in a certain time, tach pulses give the time, find the weight (plus drive ratios etc) and it will pump out the torque. It works mint trust me but conditions have to be similar, same road no big winds etc but useful tool. Megasquirt is so aws because the code is open to anyone so all the good cunts out there can implement crazy ideas. Links hardware could do all the same shit as its more powerful just being out to make money they hold back shit for better versions etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 basically the weight of the car is the reference takes x amount of torque to move x weight in a certain time, tach pulses give the time, find the weight (plus drive ratios etc) and it will pump out the torque. It works mint trust me but conditions have to be similar, same road no big winds etc but useful tool. I have a similar thing but have not used it yet. Mine does it only on G forces but you program in the weight etc. Mine does lateral Gs too so you can see if your changes to suspension are having a positive or negative affect on handling. It stored 2 gig of data I think - you download it to the laptop etc and compare laps/runs stz. P.S. - It doesn't weigh much EDIT: Mine measures RPM via the alternator frequesncy. Probably quite inaccurate but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 ^ yea a device with a accelerometer will do the same thing and is ideal but cost $. Same results with a crusty laptop hooked up to the spark output ftw just cant take the numbers it puts out as gospel. heres a little chart for inlet runner length choose your cam timing (the pulse is created by the valve) and the length is in inches up the side very crude but a rough idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyteler Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 ^ true on lancia stz. I think Audi tried it also. Granted it may offer a torque advantage low down to get an epicly large turbo spoolling but really...Factor in the size of your average trumpet plus throat length of a side-draught carb and get something of similar size made to suit? Yeah, I measured the intake size and its 45mm and the bolt pattern looks the same as carbs so I'm pretty certain any 45mm carb trumpet will fit on. I was more refering to length. CaM's not much help there as usual. Yeah, me too. That's why I said. "Factor in the size of your average trumpet plus throat length of a side-draught carb" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 oh and brad best trumpets out have a full return lip on them as most air is sucked in from the side like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Doesnt look that pretty but reduces turbulance or something Edit; For those of you lucky enough to be able to have proper inlet trumpets, you can improve the flow into those by fitting a flat plate just behind the trumpet bell and rounding off the bell so that it smoothly blends into the flat plate. The reason is that most of the air comes in the trumpet from the sides on the induction stroke rather than in line from the front as you'd expect, so if the airflow has to pass over sharp lip of the trumpet it will generate turbulence. If it has a nice, smooth bump to go over then little turbulence will be generated. Here is a picture of an EFI inlet manifold that used to be on my racing car when I ran fuel injection on it, showing the smooth lip I've just described" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bistro Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Mods should edit it into a inlet discussion thread maybe most definatly. interesting read. need to do wees ditto. cept poo combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-e Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Reading up on intake runner length and how the pulse reacts, then how to make best use of that pulse to cram air in.Throttle and intake areas to benifit different applications. Cam duration, profile and lift infomation and what the max I can get from my engine is. All this things I should have done differently while doing the conversion but hindsight is a wonderful thing Fully boe. atm looking for throttles for my blacktop. was going to get this setup but they only do it for 16v 4ages and silvertop itbs, nothing to fit my blacktop so instead am gonna go for 33mm these http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/new/061 ... tion_e.pdf Also, check Jenvey.co.uk fuck trademe mystery pipes. also must go get your fucken etc from that fucken sandblaster. 12 hr days everyday ftl/w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-e Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Fully boe. atm looking for throttles for my blacktop. was going to get this setup but they only do it for 16v 4ages and silvertop itbs, nothing to fit my blacktop so instead am gonna go for 33mm these http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/new/061 ... tion_e.pdf Also, check Jenvey.co.uk fuck trademe mystery pipes. also must go get your fucken etc from that fucken sandblaster. 12 hr days everyday ftl/w Oh thats mint. You are going to get them shipped from japan stz? Heaps of effort/time aye. I might just see if I can get some made up that have the wrap around belmouth and are a good length for 8000rpm stz fully, you'll want some random as length i reckon because of your custom inlet mani. i'm going to rev to 95 x100 rpm stz so wanting pretty fucking short. my cams will accomodate for torque stz. yeap longwinded import type stz. all good though cuz im getting many bits @ once. some of the parts stz - Cam gears are $395 / pair. Valve springs are $295 / set Cam Belt $185 Head Gasket $195 Pressure plate - 31210-AE111 27,000 yen ~ $280 Clutch plate 31250-AE952 16,000 ~ $170 Short shift kit 30301-AE802 27,000 ~ $280 Engine mount FR 12361-AE851 5,000 ~ $60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 fully, you'll want some random as length i reckon because of your custom inlet mani.i'm going to rev to 95 x100 rpm stz so wanting pretty fucking short. my cams will accomodate for torque stz. yeap longwinded import type stz. all good though cuz im getting many bits @ once. some of the parts stz - Cam gears are $395 / pair. Valve springs are $295 / set Cam Belt $185 Head Gasket $195 Pressure plate - 31210-AE111 27,000 yen ~ $280 Clutch plate 31250-AE952 16,000 ~ $170 Short shift kit 30301-AE802 27,000 ~ $280 Engine mount FR 12361-AE851 5,000 ~ $60 OmG!! thats like 9.5 x 1000! Mean, you're going to have some kind of epic na 4age in there aren't ya lil fella. Fuck thats gunna be mean. Yeah I reckon I'll aim for around about 400mm then just pull trumpets off when we are dynoing to see how it reacts. In theory the power peak should drop right off if they are about right. I read a whole heap of stuff tring to find ideal length but in reality you need to dyno it to find what works best for each setup. Manifold is abit cramped and not at a good angle plus injectors will be a little bit gayzor at high rpmses so that will all detract from epicness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-e Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 fully, also apparently individual filters ruin power hard stz. airbox ftw/who cares its still fast internet at work ftw. sussed some cams etc also. 278 inlet and 298 ex. epic 4ag ftw so still havent seen your shit etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 fully, also apparently individual filters ruin power hard stz.airbox ftw/who cares its still fast internet at work ftw. sussed some cams etc also. 278 inlet and 298 ex. epic 4ag ftw so still havent seen your shit etc I've got to do a big shit later so I'll show you it. Its just the normal brown mess you'd expect. True? Do socks ruin airflow stz? I have heard heaps of bad about them but I was keen to give them ago anyway. In that case I might just get some shitty trumpets and use a back plate like yowzer posted with one of those big foam panel filters over the whole lot maybe. Not gunna do an airbox as such though because want loud induction stz. Mean cams man. Have you ordered all that stuff yet? Perhaps I could jump in and get some of those ae101 ones. How long you expecting it to take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-e Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 fully pictures of skid marks ftw. im probably going to do a similar induction stz. pending on if it will hit shit. you can get a fiberglass plenum to suit from mike shaw (flocking) but they are heinous. pregnant snake stz 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Filters. A wise man once told me you get more HP without air filters but only for the first few hours as after that your engine has accelerated wear. Possibly true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Haven't had filter on wag since night I got it. Pretty sure it has helped it to the point where it is now. Ie: burned 4 litres of oil on trip to wellington Either that or it's a mitsy Having bad dreams of twin 45s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Gayzor. Filters ftl. I have pretty much never used filters in any of my cars and they have all been sweet. Who knows whats going on inside though because I haven't pulled any of the engines down and I do quite like the thought of protecting my expensive new engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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