Military (Automotive) Specification Automotive Wiring Harnesses.

[ProZac]

I've found insulated crimp connectors to be acceptable as long as you cut the insulation (coloured plastic) off, crimp them properly, and the shrink the crimp with some decent double wall shrink.

 

I know Narva stuff is pretty shitty, but for people on a budget (me), the cimping set they've just started doing, P/N 56513 on this page: http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/tools is actually pretty good. I think they retail in the $200 range? But they do all your common stuff very well. I still work at repco half a day on the weekend to keep my staff discount, so I bought two sets. Bought a couple of the Deutsch crimpers too. Of note, is that there are different sized Deutsch crimpers for the DT and DTM terminals. I've never seen a cheap DTM set. You can do them with the DT crimpers, just a little more fiddly. It's actually only a little internal ferrule that is different, I'll make one and turn one of my DT crimpers into a DTM crimper one day.

 

Dones anyone know any good temp and abrasion rated double wall adhesive lined heat shrink that isnt the DR25 or ATUM stuff? They're what I'm currently using, but its often a little thick and looks 'chunky'.

 

Fuck Zac, it's a wiring loom, stop being so damn pedantic!

[ProZac]

Also, because I play with Mitsy shit, this website has helped me many times:

 

http://evoecu.logic.net/wiki/Plugs,_Pins,_and_Connectors

 

Also has good info on part numers for the standard OBD2 connectors. That will become more important now that Link G4+ ecu's are supporting ISO15765 CAN Diagnostics.

 

Another resource I've used a heap is:

 

http://www.newunitedracetech.com/shop/

 

Never actually bought anything from there, but many many many times I've found the correct part number, brand and series of connector to match up to a factory part... And have then been able to buy it elsewhere cheaper .

[NaN]

NaN

[Simon]

 

Haha there is nothing wrong with these, they are very good. My old man would have used hundreds of thousands of them.

 

You have to know how to use them and have the right stuff (which no one does). Quality ones in the right size with the right crimping tool crimped in the right place.

If you don't do that they will fall off and thus they have a bad rep.

I cringe at people soldering wires in cars. Probably the hardest way possible to do the job lol

Those plugs are awesome, but totally not worth it unless it's under the bonnet / car and or in the engine harness.

[ProZac]

mate, it would be WAY, cheaper to use solider and heat shrink, and way more reliable. 

 

How do you properly solder to an un-crimped connector? For the love of god don't say just squash it with pliers, heat it up and slam in some solder. Isn't your thread meant to be about doing things properly? That crimping set does all the common insulated connectors, barrel connectors, and both single and double non-insulated connectors. The double crimper is especially awesome, as you do the two different size crimps (one into the bared wire, and one into the insulation, or seal for a weatherpack) at the same time. Quick, easy, and a bloody good result for a reasonably cheap tool, considering your getting atleast 3 tools in one.

 

Solder introduces brittle points in a loom, which can be unreliable. In the middle of a loom you usually won't have a problem as both ends of the connection are free to move. If you solder a wire directly to a pin, which then gets plugged in and fixed into place, you've now got one free and and one movable end. I use pigtail connectors all the time, sometimes with solder, sometimes without depending on what is at hand or the job requires, but I'd definitely never solder directly to a pin. You wouldn't think it would be any different to crimping the wire to the pin, but I've seen wires which were crimped, and then soldered onto pins fail, right next to wires which were only crimped still going strong.

[Ned]

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing he's talking about just soldering wire to wire, not wire to pin?

Soldering wire to connectors isn't normally a good idea like you said. It can be done with success though, especially if you don't overdo it and get solder an inch up the wire as well. Crimping ftw though (just not those joiners etc posted by Clint )

Super keen to do a nice wiring loom job one day have looked at a lot of wiring porn for a while and so so keen! One day.

What's so special about those connectors everyone uses? Are they rated for higher temp, or extra super waterproof or something? What makes them better than every other plug? Just interested because there's a million different kinds of plugs out there, many way smaller than those that are still water proof etc and cheaper too most likely... Just seeing if i overlooked something important as I was quite keen to use some smaller cheaper plugs myself

[ProZac]

Which type are you talking about?

 

On the cheap side, weatherpack are the way to go I reckon, They seal up pretty well, are easy to assemble, and have a decent engagement cycle rating.

 

I like the Deutsch DT and DTM connectors though, but its probably just pure snobbery without any real justification. They have a better feel, are easier to engage/disengage, and look more schmick.

[flyingbrick]

Just go with old school serial (or whatever they are called) plugs and sockets everywhere like megasquirt uses.

Joking, those plugs are yuuuuck. I wish they used something a bit more robust

[NaN]

NaN

[ProZac]

Just go with old school serial (or whatever they are called) plugs and sockets everywhere like megasquirt uses.

Joking, those plugs are yuuuuck. I wish they used something a bit more robust

 

DIY Autotune are doing the MS with nice AMPSeal connectors now, but it's pretty pricey.

 

I must play with a MS one day.

[slacker.cam]

DB9 connectors and the likes are totally not suited for automotive use. I have no idea why the MS guys thought that was a good idea all those years ago. I guess just becuase they're cheap. If you have a nice hot iron and make sure you get the wire engaged all the way into the solder cup then you can do an OK job. Make sure you tin the end of the wire first, then partially fill the cup on the connector and with the iron still on the cup slide the wire into place. Add some more solder to top up the cup and then remove the heat.

 

90% of MS users will get this wrong and will end up with cracked or dry joints once it sees automotive vibration.

 

Interestingly the aerospace industry uses DB connectors everywhere but I think the pins are crimped and then inserted into the connector which is a totally different ballgame.

 

Those AMPSeal plugs on MS3 Pro are awesome though.

[Ned]

Connectors i was talking about are made by Switchcraft. The range is EN2 and EN3, which are mil spec connectors (meet Mil-Std 202 in moisture resistance, insulation resistance, thermal shock and salt spray) also IP66/IP68 rated. Can get the same #16 (13A) and #20 (7.5A) pins as the DT amd DTM connectors, but are a bit smaller i think (EN2 0.5" OD and EN3 0.7" OD). They arent made for automotive use like the DT and DTM connectors, but pretty sure they will work just fine for a lot/most things. Not actually sure if they are any/much cheaper though. Just a possibly substitute for someone who wants something different

Cam, you'll remember these, they are the ones we were using on the typhoon job.

Can buy them from mouser/digikey/farnell etc

[sluggy]

This is a great thread. I had thought about getting the loom for my car made up by a shop, then I heard that for the new V8 series they were charging 8k a loom, so major change of heart, selfy coming up sometime soon (ish)...

[Esprit]

This is a great thread. I had thought about getting the loom for my car made up by a shop, then I heard that for the new V8 series they were charging 8k a loom, so major change of heart, selfy coming up sometime soon (ish)...

And that's for a loom they've got a pattern for, as in I bet if you were to order a loom of similar complexity, for a different race car, the loom would cost about $11k+

[sluggy]

And that's for a loom they've got a pattern for, as in I bet if you were to order a loom of similar complexity, for a different race car, the loom would cost about $11k+

Roger that, maybe I should've gone for a draw through four barrel setup.

[BDA780]

I know of a BMW touring car being built. Loom has taken 3 weeks of one guys labour so far is $25k. 

A family friend who runs Zentec wiring looms in USA does the Honda Indy cars. Every season they replace the loom. Everything is pulled apart and not used again.
He could help for sourcing cheaper second hand connectors. Pity the crimping tool cost $600 though

 

Edit: otherwise second hand NASCAR stuff is common on ebay other second hand motorsport places.

[Simon]

I know of a BMW touring car being built. Loom has taken 3 weeks of one guys labour so far is $25k. 

A family friend who runs Zentec wiring looms in USA does the Honda Indy cars. Every season they replace the loom. Everything is pulled apart and not used again.

He could help for sourcing cheaper second hand connectors. Pity the crimping tool cost $600 though

 

Edit: otherwise second hand NASCAR stuff is common on ebay other second hand motorsport places.

Often with those top end plugs, the pins are a once only thing. Probably why they are only used once.

You crimp the pin to the wire, then push the pin into the plug, and once you have done that you can't get the pins out. They are designed this way so you never have problems.

[Spencer]

I understand what you are saying but why have a plug then? I see le mans prototypes changing parts and looms bits all the time in the pits.

[flyingbrick]

I second eBay NASCAR stuff I've not bought anything yet but there's some cool stuff going cheap!

[Simon]

I understand what you are saying but why have a plug then? I see le mans prototypes changing parts and looms bits all the time in the pits.

Is this RE: me?

You have a plug so you can do a motor swap as fast as possible with only a couple of plugs running the whole engine bay.

The plugs I'm talking about are like 12 pin and above. They are designed so the plug can be connected and disconnected heaps and heaps (like in motorsport) yet still stand up to the rough handling without pins falling out.