Road car to race car: The process.

[Vintage Grumble]

Good day, I thought it may be a good idea to put up some information about/get input from people that have gone through the process of building a race car. I myself hope to build a road legal club car in the near future, but suck at this internet business, so any input from those in the know would be chursome.

The rules for building a race car can be found here: http://www.motorsport.org.nz/manual/#App2

What im struggling to find information on is:

The process and costs of homologation for the cage/seats/belts.

The process and cost of the authority card so that you can still use the car on the road.

Anyone able to help out here with information?

[mikuni]

Why yes, yes I can.

Here is the link to the technical forms on the Motorsport New Zealand Website

http://www.motorsport.org.nz/technical-forms/

Where you can find helpful resources, such as;

Roll protection homologation

http://www.motorsport.org.nz/assets/For ... -02-10.pdf

Authority card application

http://www.motorsport.org.nz/assets/For ... -11-09.pdf

Vehicle log book application (clubsport is suitable for us)

http://www.motorsport.org.nz/assets/For ... -11-09.pdf

I'm pretty much laughing right now. You get told by so many people to not attempt a cage on the cheap but the homologation papers are so straight forward, detailed and easy to follow. Schedule A isn't too bad a document and everything seems to be falling into place quite nicely. I only researched this over the last few days, so quite timely that you're asking the questions.

For pretty much everything else that you need to know, look here.

http://www.motorsport.org.nz/technical/

My suggestion, if you haven't already, is to get your Clubsport license, which will give you the motorsport manual in hard copy, which is much easier to read through. You can then apply for a club license and start racing, even before getting a cage or authority card.

[Avenga]

I got my cage homologated in the early 2000's and it was easy back then. as long as you have good line drawings then your sweet. I also got my national race license which was a really easy open book test.

I never bothered getting my authority card because I don't drive it on the street.

[JoKer]

Regs change end of this year to a thicker diameter required for main hoop - hope that is covered in the above links

[mikuni]

Regs change end of this year to a thicker diameter required for main hoop - hope that is covered in the above links

Is covered, but can never be mentioned too much IMO. Building your entire cage around a main hoop that doesn't comply would be balls.

Change is 44.5mm main roll bar, rather than 38.1mm as it was previously. Comes into effect on Jan 1st 2011. It says as a bare minimum to keep inline with current FIA regulations, so I think I'll do the front laterals and windscreen bar, along with diags out of 44.5mm just to be extra sure and then 38.1mm for everything else, to save a little bit of weight/cost. This may change if the cost of the tube is similar between the 2 sizes. Weight is about 0.4 kg heavier by the metre for the larger diameter, around 2.8 to 2.4 kg, from an NZTM spec sheet I found.

[Vintage Grumble]

Cheers for all the info Mr Mikuni, I really do suck at finding stuff, haha, hopefully this helps others out also. I did notice the new rules coming into effect in Jan 2011 regarding main hope dia and so on, makes me wonder about people who are half way through building a car to the old spec and wont get them homologated till after that date, I know of two people in this boat. Also, I agree, it looks a lot easier and cheaper to go through this process then I thought, and luckly I can get my hands on a proper tube bender, so will make it that much easier.

Also, I priced up the tube through steel & tube in TGA, this is what I was quoted,

44.5 x 2.6 (the only seem to stock it in 2.6mm) comes in 4m lengths = $77.85+ per length ($19.46+ per m)

38.1 x 2.6 " " comes in 5.5m lengths = $75.00+ per length ($13.63+ per m) (also, these length are 12.4kg/2.25kg per M)

[Spencer]

I did notice the new rules coming into effect in Jan 2011 regarding main hope dia and so on, makes me wonder about people who are half way through building a car to the old spec and wont get them homologated till after that date, I know of two people in this boat.

Yea had a few people I know in that boat too, car doesn't need to be finished to be homologated, so just need to go nuts and finish the cage and get the paper work through before the date. Shouldn't be a major as long as they know about the change

[ryanfels]

The guy on NZhondas with the NSX has managed to get around it with not much cage work done

Now work is likely to stop at this stage as there is a requirement from MSNZ to get the cage approved before the end of the year due to regulation changes in next years design so we're going to get the paperwork in with what we have so far (which is acceptable to them) and then focus on completing the front legs, stays and other parts required to really tie the whole car together........ but what a great end to the year !!!

[mikuni]

Thats right. Any people in that case should just get the cage alone to a completed stage and send the paper work and photos off to MSNZ. They will accept it up until the 24th of December, so still time now. After the first, the whole cage will need to come out to be homologated under the new regs.

You are going to be bending it and everything yourself? I'm not sure on your experience with this, but there is a real art to bend pipe right, especially when lengths are important. I'm getting a mate to do mine, who is certified and everything. Really knows his stuff and has done a couple of cages years ago, I'm just going to be helping him out with the easy stuff/where two hands are required and doing the paperwork, photos, along with painting etc. Should save heaps, as the cage I'm intending to build would be around the $2500-3000 mark from a proper place with all papers etc.

Those prices are cheaper than I was quoted from steel and tube It was around $105 incl for the 38.1mm and similar for the 44.5, but the guy said it was 5.5m, not 4.0m. I was wondering why it was so cheap.

For doing your own bending check out this little video. Its some software that has been around for a few years and a lot of people are using it, including many shops. You have to buy it, but when you consider the cost of a couple of wasted pipes from bad bends, its pretty cheap.

http://www.bend-tech.com/video/pro_bt_c ... demo01.wmv

The software can be purchased here.

http://www.2020softwaresolutions.com/

You can customise it to do headers etc and it can also tell you exact lengths of pipe for the correct bend/radius etc, how to scollop out the pipes for technical joins, like when pipes are connecting at a not right angle etc. Seems to be quite helpful.

I ran it past the dude who's going to be bending and welding my cage (who is an older fella) and he was extremely dubious. He's keen to do it with wood and tape measures, and all that kind of good stuff

edit: surely that Honda cage wouldn't pass, it looks like it's just tacked. Maybe if you get papers in to say you are half way through they will allow completion after Jan first. One of the key things they are looking for is good welding 360 degrees around each bend.

[ryanfels]

I think he mentioned that they were going to weld that up but the point is that thats the only part of the cage they need done

[nick_m]

BOB SAGET! I'm half way through welding in my roll cage. I brought it in kitset about 3 months ago and i'm not going to be done by jan. I'm pretty sure mine is 38mm. That licks balls.

[Vintage Grumble]

You are a fountain of useful information and links Mr Mikuni.

As for bending the pipe myself, im hoping the man who owns the bender will help me, hes building a space framed 350Z out of chromoly ATM, so I guess he did a lot of practise bends and so on to work out the best method, as you dont want to be wasting chromoly.

And I do intend on getting this car road legal and racing it as is for a while, hope to do all the local car club motorkhanas and track events, plus the dual sprints in winter.

[jakesae101]

BOB SAGET! I'm half way through welding in my roll cage. I brought it in kitset about 3 months ago and i'm not going to be done by jan. I'm pretty sure mine is 38mm. That licks balls.

where did you get the kit out of curiosity was it car specific want to cage my car but being jew as as coin is at a all time low

[madmike]

I think he mentioned that they were going to weld that up but the point is that thats the only part of the cage they need done

Yes but the whole cage will need to be re homologated if there are any changes or additions to the original designs used.

Any additions,repairs or modification to roll protection structure requires the whole cage to be re complied.

[Testament]

even additions? e.g. tieing in the front strut towers if they weren't originally?

[madmike]

even additions? e.g. tieing in the front strut towers if they weren't originally?

6) Modification of a Homologated Safety Cage / Safety Rollbar

It is possible to perform modifications to a Schedule A ‘homologated’ or Schedule AA ‘approved’ safety

cage or safety rollbar under the following conditions;

• All proposed modifications should be presented to the MSNZ Technical Department for approval

prior to any work commencing.

• Once the proposed modification has been completed an Extension Application Form (Form

T004) shall be completed and submitted to the MSNZ Technical Department for acceptance and

update (re-validation) of the existing homologation.

• An Extension Application is only valid where tube members are added that are not part of the

principal structure. This will include; side intrusion bars, harness mounting bars, reinforcements,

and gussets.

• The existing homologation number will be retained.

• An Extension Application can not be used where any tube members are introduced that form

part of the principle structure. In this case a new application will be required. (As an example;

the addition of two lateral rollbars and a connecting member to a Safety Rollbar will require a

new application. A new homologation number will be issued).

• Any permanent modification to a homologated structure will invalidate the original certification

hence an extension certificate must be issued to re-validate the homologation / approval before

the vehicle can be used in competition.

[nick_m]

BOB SAGET! I'm half way through welding in my roll cage. I brought it in kitset about 3 months ago and i'm not going to be done by jan. I'm pretty sure mine is 38mm. That licks balls.

where did you get the kit out of curiosity was it car specific want to cage my car but being jew as as coin is at a all time low

From Dave at racecraft (?) can't remember the name of his business. I think he used to work under the name sms motorsport. I have his number at work i'll dig it out on monday

Cage was car specific, Its just an old dude in his 60's who is semi retired and just sells roll cage kits and builds rotary engines. Used to be a rally fiend back in the day and ran a workshop. He's also a tech inspector for motorsport nz. I've been impressed with how well my one fits

He said he has 260 profiles so Its quite likely he has one for you. I.E. just buy it, don't need to send car in.

$460 for basic 6 point. I.E. the bare minimum. main hoop, 2x rear stays, 1 x rear diagonal and the two front legs. door bars, dash bars, roof bars, extra diagonals etc are extra. WRC style bowtie door bars are $55 a side, single straight bars $22 a side.

Thats all I can remember.

[jakesae101]

sweet if you could find me his details that would be great

[Testament]

Hmm stripping paint off mine now for photos (previous owner lost them), never mind about the extra bars I was thinking about puting in. hopefully have that done and pics taken in an hour. I've got the forms but they are old ones that maurice thomson filled out when the cage was built 4+ years ago now, hopefully thats ok. anyone actually talked to someone at MSNZ about this stuff? i.e. know who to call at MSNZ?

[jakesae101]

talk to Rod Taylor i think his name is at msnz hes a all round gc