Testament Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I've been thinking about what I might do with various bits of the 131R (seeing as I can't actually do anything on it atm) and one thing I don't know so much about is the suspension The obvious things are coilovers and new solid strut tops (instead of the factory ones with rubber bits) with spherical bearing+camber adjustment then possibly urethane bushes or even rose jointing everything - I know people do this on newer cars, but not sure about on the older designs. The other thing I've come across is with the Fiat 131 front suspension being a similar setup to Mk1/Mk2 escorts - I was looking into what people do with those, and they start talking about compression struts and tension struts and not explaining or illustrating wtf those things are. I think they do the front to rear location bit instead of the anti roll bar or as well as - it wasn't entirely obvious which. Now im not sure, maybe the escort ARB is soft and rubbish or something and maybe it's not neccesary with the Fiat? or maybe it's just something to do with this setup vs. how newer cars do it with a fully located A arm instead of a track control arm that can pivot about a bit without other location means. pics of 131 suspension here http://www.carsfromitaly.net/fiat/popups/131sus.html Please comment/discuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholdowa Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 You're right about the compression and tension struts, and musings on newer developments. They connect the strut to the bodywork either forwards (tension) or backwards (compresion). The problem with using the ARB to locate it is that it deforms under heavy braking, and this changes the steering geometry, making the car far less stable. You can add a third mounting point to the ARB between the other two ( anti-dive ), which helps a bit and is a lot cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepers Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 the rear setup looks pretty sweet but the front could use some work. i reckon the standard idea of adding another link is probably a good one. just looking at the pic (with no idea of space constraints and whatnot) id be using the factory mount point in the lower control arm as the pivot point for a new forward facing castor arm, with some adjustment on it, and then make new mounts for the ends of the sway bar. something like that anyway. i dont know about other makes (they are probably all very similar) but AE86/KE70/heaps of toyota stuff has a separate castor rod and mounting frame thingo that un-bolts. maybe you could graft something like this into your fiat?? i have some you could borrow to see if they will work if you want. what did they do with the factory race cars? they were very successful so they must have sorted something out?? enough of my ramblings.... sheepers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think the 131 abarth had something along the lines of an extra rod - I remember seeing something a while back showing the different track control arm but haven't been able to locate a picture yet. the rear setup is ok although the top links are on an angle, rather than a traditional 4-link like the 124. not sure if thats better/worse/doesnt matter much. I am going to need to make the panhard rod adjustable and change the mounting point on the body though to get it back in the right place when the ride height is sorted out. ok now i found some average pics of the 131 abarth setup - it's a dirty one but should get the idea the arm has an extra mounting for the ARB and as you suggested the extra rod goes in where the ARB used to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Yes^^^ Chris/lownslow should know bout the compression idea as he talked to a guy Aiden, who has put some on his racing car, bout it. He reckons its a very worthwhile addition. I would expect UJ will have a comment about this too as he loves suspension and runs similar setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozin Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Will be watching this, I'm not 100% familiar with the terminology but keen to bring myself up to date... KP uses the same system essentially using the swaybar as a radius rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Really interesting stuff! Agree on the addition of a castor arm to keep it all under control and re-location of the ARB as well as adding an adjustable link to the ARB? You could almost use a Japanese coilover for the front setup. You would just have to choose the right length ones and play with camber plates / bottom mounts to get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Yes^^^ This setup is alot better than the ford setup as you could poss do the above. The Ford is cast as one unit rather than having the stub axle on that extra bit. What is that extra bit refereed to as? Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepers Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 its official term is the "doowhacky" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 as above, for the strut part of it. id just grab some bc coil overs.(bc's as the lower part is steel not ali like most) trim mounts off and weld on your own to suit. easy . may even find something that lines up or you just have to redrill if your lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Jealous muchly if works, makes for one piece of piss adaption! Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggo Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I have seen it done like this a couple of times... Basically they run the TCA's on the opposing sides to how they would run factory, and the factory ARB mount is used for the new arm. Then the new fitting on the TCA holds the ARB. Would there be a way of working this type of setup here? I am aware that you can't have welded TCAs or is this only for adjustable ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Yes^^^This setup is alot better than the ford setup as you could poss do the above. The Ford is cast as one unit rather than having the stub axle on that extra bit. What is that extra bit refereed to as? Gaz The bit with the stub axle is called that or sometimes called the hub carrier from what I have gathered as above, for the strut part of it. id just grab some bc coil overs.(bc's as the lower part is steel not ali like most) trim mounts off and weld on your own to suit. easy . may even find something that lines up or you just have to redrill if your lucky Yeah basically thats what I was thinking, I may even be able to find a strut that I can just re drill to fit the fiat hub carrier ideally - but otherwise just have to change the bottom mount and use whatever strut suits with solid mounted adjustable top mounts. I have seen it done like this a couple of times... Basically they run the TCA's on the opposing sides to how they would run factory, and the factory ARB mount is used for the new arm. Then the new fitting on the TCA holds the ARB.Would there be a way of working this type of setup here? I am aware that you can't have welded TCAs or is this only for adjustable ones? Just did some reading and according to MSNZ Sch.A you are allowed to weld/heat treat suspension steering components provided you get a suitable metallurgical certificate. Which I would presume means, material spec, weld procedure and non destructive testing. with that in mind I think it would be possible to take some factory arms and put ARB link attachments on similar to the abarth arms without too much trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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