David Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 A note should be taken that standard driven water pumps are designed for the engine's average operating rpm. normaly around 2000rpm. The pully ratio has been selected to get maximum flow with little energy needed to turn it. Take the engine rpms above or bellow this point and volume of water flowing threw the pump will decrease. So when doing a burn-out, a larger pully on the pump maybe required to reduce the speed of the pump alowing it to flow more water. this may couse another problem when the fan is driven straight of the water pump drive as it's speed will also be reduced. Driven cooling fans have the same problem- spinning them too fast will end up reducing air flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipsittin Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think you need to seal the sides of the shroud to the radiator with a foam strip to seal the air going through it. Secondly the air is always in your cooling system hence H2O. Cavitation is worse at higher temps due to the boiling effect. The hotter your cooling system gets the closer it becomes to steam so you need to raise the pressure rating of your cap. ie: if it is a 13lb cap replace it with a 15lb cap. 2lb's of cap pressure can reduce the water temp by up to 8 degreesF in the right circumstances. I used to run the prestone coolant they run in the nascars from repco it dropped my temp by 20degF (and thats a shit load) then the 15lb cap dropped it by 6degF = win win. I used to help build a lot of burnout comp cars and we used to fit a second type of radiator into the heater lines with another electric fan. More capacity = more cooling A lot of euro cars now run 2 water pumps (one one the heater the other one on the engine) and they are getting better results globally than the japas now (economy and efficiency wise)just by controlling the water flow at different rev ranges differently. Also if you are running high boost and the engine has a knock sensor it will be tripping the timing circuit and retarding the timing to fuck while doing burnouts as the on and off the revs causes spikes of boost high enough on some cars (mitsi and subarus are bad for it) to put the factory ecu into limp mode. Not the case with aftermarket ecu's unless they have been set for the same parameters as the factory ones. Good luck with this but try the cap and see what it does if you haven't already done so Corey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipsittin Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 A note should be taken that standard driven water pumps are designed for the engine's average operating rpm. normaly around 2000rpm. The pully ratio has been selected to get maximum flow with little energy needed to turn it. Take the engine rpms above or bellow this point and volume of water flowing threw the pump will decrease. So when doing a burn-out, a larger pully on the pump maybe required to reduce the speed of the pump alowing it to flow more water. this may couse another problem when the fan is driven straight of the water pump drive as it's speed will also be reduced. Driven cooling fans have the same problem- spinning them too fast will end up reducing air flow. This is totally true and why so many after market places have horse power pulleys which effectivly does this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblegoose Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 looks like you have alot of 'testing' to do ive got more 14's if you want them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipsittin Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 ^^^^^^LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durty Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 my 1988 volvo has a standard waterpump and an auxilary electric one tis lush, the electric one also turns on after car is turned off to help it cool down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblegoose Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 my 1988 volvo is lush and is a factory built skid machine totally agree VOLVO ftw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblegoose Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 i dont think so edit: meaning 'cool volvos ftw!' also 'durty your volvo sucks FWD bawl bags' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forced Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Secondly the air is always in your cooling system hence H2O. Cavitation is worse at Eh what? There's no air in my cooling system. There's air dissolved in the water but that boils out as the water gets hot for the first time. The only time you'll get air still in there is when the headgasket isn't sealing properly, which is very common in turbo cars that aren't tuned properly. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipsittin Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The oxygen is released from the hydrogen at higher temperatures as it gets closer to boiling point. Every cooling system retains air Steve its a natural phenomonum (man thats a big word lol). Most turbo engines only blow head gaskets due to fatigue of the gasket, the head bolts strecthing or not being torqued tight enough, the head is soft causeing the gasket not to seal. Head gaskets being blown on turbo engines are generally caused by people cranking the boost and the above things not being right. A friend of mine years ago worked on the turbo Sierra's at Bathurst for SBR and they had problems with snapping head bolts due to the torque applied to get them to seal in relation to the boost they were running. They were doing the angle torque Ford said twice to get them to stay together. Corey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forced Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The oxygen is released from the hydrogen at higher temperatures as it gets closer to boiling point. My Flatmate: Its been really humid lately because the hydrogen and oxygen atoms in the air fuse together to make moisture.Me: Uuh, no. Thats not right at all. OK so you got that from the "dumb chick" thread It's primary school physics. Fill the jug with water Turn it on As it warms up it makes a noise. No it's not the water starting to boil but it's the heat which "boils" the air out of the water. As it gets close to boiling point it gets queiter as nearly all the air has gone. When it reaches boiling point it suddenly gets noisier as the water begins to boil. Of course the air is 75 or so % nitrogen which doesn't dissolve in water, it's only really the oxygen that does in any great quantity and CO2 in lesser ammounts. Once it's boiled out.. that's it .(there's very little surface area for the oxygen to re dissolve back into the water)..... if you still get bubbles, you've got problems. Just that most people are in denial that they actually have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblegoose Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Just that most people are in denial that they actually have a problem. i find nasal spray works wonders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedy Al Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 sweet, so i havnt really bothered to read through the 4 pages of stuff here But yes a shroud will work freaken wonders, as well as possibly blocking andy decent air holes in the fron radator supoort area. Real life situation, We had an fj40 land crusier at work that would reach 200 degress and couldnt even shake off the temp at idling with an after market electric Fan running constant. tried water wetter, no thermostat, and a differeent radator cap, all showed minor improvments. So, another land cruiser cam in, later model, running a holden fan and holden shroud. that never ever over heated. So we stuck one of those fans onto the fj40, and bam, ran at 160 all the time. and if you take the shroud off a holden will over heat So, proof is in the pudding And i have serios respect for holden fan cooling abilty. of a vn $20 from a wreaker. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The oxygen is released from the hydrogen at higher temperatures as it gets closer to boiling point. Now You post a lot of good shit dude but fuck that's funny. Here the world is wasting all this money and energy on electrolysis and fuel cells and all they had to do was boil water to release the hydrogen. The chemical bond between hydrogen and oxygen in waters case is pretty strong takes a lot more heat than boiling to split them down to individual elements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84_S12 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Slipsittin: You've got half the facts right, but some of that is like wtf mate Forced: You're talking fucking utter nonsense!! I thought we might have learned from the last "cooling problems" thread? @Ke36 In a burnout car you may have to consider all of the offered solutions: you're driving an engine and its cooling system outside of its design limits 1: Yes the water pump probably is cavitating at the engine speeds I imagine you're using to burn the bags. Decreasing its speed through a pulley change would be a starting point; failing that fitting an electric waterpump is another (More expensive) option, albeit a more flexible one in that you won't compromise water flow under normal driving conditions. 2: Fit a well designed expansion tank that increases the volume of your coolant, allows for the expansion and contraction of your coolant without drawing air into the water jacket, and can safely vent excess pressure if necessary - space is the limiting factor here obviously 3: An engine driven clutch fan with a properly sized and sealed shroud, a well designed front air dam and having the engine splashguard fitted to the underside of the car will all provide the conditions necessary for a fan to be in it's optimum performance curve; to move as much air as possible through your heat exchanger AND get it moving out of the engine bay is the goal - to achieve it you need to make the engine bay a low pressure zone by sealing as much air leakage around the radiator (and the rest of the front of the car) as possible 4: Any third party product that increases the thermal conductivity of your coolant medium is going to help 5: Cranking the heater on full with the fan on maximum, and opening your windows provides you with another (free) means of rejecting unwanted heat through what is effectively a secondary heat exchanger 6: An evaporative cooling system could also be fitted to your intercooler/radiator combo, a tank with a 12v pump and some irrigation tube and fittings shouldn't be too expensive or difficult to fit and will give you additional cooling headroom. 7: Ensure that ALL of the air is bled from the cooling system and that there are no leaks that will contribute to air being drawn into it as the water leaks out. Some engines (RB** series springs to mind) have a bleed port at the highest point of the water jacket. I'm going to assume that you know how to properly fill your cooling sytem... 8: Consider routing the coolant through a coil immersed in a water/ice mixture, hell you could jerry rig the car's airconditioning evaporator to keep it cold! For fucks sakes people the answers have pretty much all been given here, but the point of the thread AND the forum for that matter is very much diluted by the sheer amount of misguided bullshit the less intelligent members spout between the meaningful posts Fuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 wow 84_S12 Your've put it right out there. I must admit I tend to skip the chemistry lessons as it reminds me too much of school. A person with a little bit of knowledge can be more dangeris than someone with none. As you have put there is an outline of things to consider. Some practical things that people have tested and proved in the past are nomaly some of the best information even thow they don't know the full sientific text book behind it. A practical way of stopping a water pump over reving and cavitating is to adapt a viscus fan clutch to drive the water pump (a hevyer oil in clutch). parts are cheap and you might already have lying around. Depending on the model or type of unit will take very little time and make even a (putt about) to (burn-out) car cool better and give back some hourse power. even save fuel. This also will take testing. a lot cheaper than a electric unit. (I've never seen this on a factory car and hope there is no good reson why) works very good on my car. There is many type of viscus units and some are even temp sensitive. This type may not be so suited to a burn out car- takes to long to take up. but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The viscus convershion works well in my car. Also putting an aircon clutch on the altinator so it disconnects under full throttle. All less load on motor helping to keep it cool. Only foult I've found with a clutch on the altinator is on a long run of full throttle like a 1/4 mile the voltage in the battery wasn't stable and started miss fire. 2X options fitt a larger battery ( more weight ) or put a large capacitor across the the battery to help voltage isues. any one who has played with big audio amps and capacitors will under stand how this helps. Plus Caps are normaly made of alloy so very light. Also when fitting a Cap at the battery it is highly recommended to put a fuse between the battery and the cap so it can be easyly isolated and blow before cap melt down if it ever generates a foult in it. This could make a big mess of the engine bay or even torch your ride.. Wont to know more just ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 For fucks sakes people the answers have pretty much all been given here, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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