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re-registering a vehicle


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Nah, need to do an alt docs form. As bike has been off the road fo 47 years.

Just trying to build as much of a case for them to approve it for registration. I haven't got any paperwork, and the plate is loooong out of the system.

 

But yes, process is super Mickey mouse on the best of days. Everyone you talk to tells you something different.

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I've already got a copy of that "we don't do that" email as part of my doc collection. Aswell as screen grabs from that site you linked showing that the plate, frame and engine numbers all return "Not Stolen"

Hopefully that's enough on that front.

 

I got an official response from Kawasaki NZ saying they had records that it was imported and sold in Auckland by Kawasaki NZ in 1971. So hopefully that's a golden ticket? maybe?

If only there was a clear, consistent list of what is required for the applications. But that would be too much to ask for wouldn't it....

 

So hopefully a stat dec saying how a bought it, and a signed identifier sighting from VTNZ, and that should be enough of a case to submit for the alt docs form approval. Will post my outcomes in here.

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Also, still no news on my Harley Alt Docs application. I submitted that on the 26th of September.

Why does it take 2 months for them to look at it?

 

Edit: I just sent a chaseup email, and the auto response was that current turnaround time is 10 business days. So why has mine taken 50 so far and still counting?

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Goat, I feel your pain!

The Police have an online form for OAI requests. This is what I used and it worked: https://forms.police.govt.nz/oiarequest

With my Austin 7 I also got back the "10 business days"  reply when I resubmitted my documents (for the third time) but I have always been told it now takes about 20 working days. After not hearing anything back from them in 20 days I rang them again, spent ages waiting to talk to someone who then had to transfer me to a more senior person, more waiting, then she just said they had the application, it was "being reviewed" and it would take 20 working days. So I just wait I guess?

The VINing place is now probably booked out till March I imagine. And even then I think it will need a LVVTA inspection too. I first contacted NZTA in August so at this rate it might end up taking almost half a year to get the paper work done and the car registered (if they let me).

A friend up north with a similar car talked to a vehicle repairer who just rang Wellington apparently and said this car needs a VIN and was just issued one! So his car now has a plate affixed and he's able to go through the rest of the process. No CA03 involved at all.

I started writing up the process I had to go through to help others in the VCC with it. It is very confusing and yes everyone gets told different things. I haven't finished doing this yet as obviously I haven't completed the process but here is part of it:

Quote

Once you get the CA03 and read it the process doesn't become any clearer unfortunately. The form states that the follow must be provided.

- Proof of previous registration (see Note 2)

- Ownership trail (original documents leading from the last registered owner to the current
New Zealand owner, eg bill of sale, auction invoices, any relevant document may be
considered) (see Note 3)

- Written VIN/chassis verification (accepted from approved inspecting organisations on
their letterhead only, with signature and ID number)

- Independently certified translation of any documents not written in English

- Photographs of the vehicle and identifiers.

Note 2: Confirmation of de-registration from the country/state of original vehicle licence authority.

Note 3: The applicant (owner/importer) must supply a statutory declaration covering the following
points:
• How the vehicle was obtained
• Condition of the vehicle at the time of purchase (eg, registered, unregistered, damaged).


The 'must' and added notes confuse things somewhat as is the fact that there are other things they want they do not ask for in this form that you only find out about later..

If you fill in this form to the best of your ability and send it to NZTA as instructed you will get back an email from asking for the following: I rang and confirmed with them that this is what they want:

- Vin/Chassis verification from Key delivery service partner (AA, VINZ or VTNZ)
- NZ Police vehicle of interest report (do an OAI request via the Police web site)
- Document(s) confirming past vehicle history and where it came from
- Document(s) to support the purchase of the vehicle
- Signed & Witnessed statutory declaration confirming vehicle ownership

 

I sent them all that on the 21st Oct and am waiting to hear back now.

My advice for anyone trying to do this is find a testing place or inspector who has already done this for someone. If they can organise it all for you and you provide them the docs needed I think it goes much smoother. Finding someone who knows is the tricky part!

Simon

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That's the OIA thing I used. And I got the reply that they "don't give out that information, and to try carjam".

Tori's link might be enough. Will see. Want to wait till I get Harley stuff back before submitting another. Wouldn't want to overload them eh.

Harley stuff couldn't be more straightforward, so I don't know why its taking so long. I literally have all the documentation. Its just missing one name on the previous owners signed bill of sale (which I should have just written on it), as the VTNZ inspector wasn't happy that it was a "complete" ownership trail. Just cos of that one missing bit. Ah well. Luckily I don't mind paying heaps for poor service. :-| Its almost been 2 months now. Not a word of the status, despite chasing. Always the same "being reviewed" status. yay, transparency.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just an update on mine. Been 30 working days now from the third time I sent in the CA03 application (over 3 months since I started the process!) and am still waiting to hear. I rang again yesterday (long wait times - crappy music on hold) and after 45 minutes all they could say was it was still being reviewed and someone looked at it 2 weeks ago (last time I rang incidentally). Other than that no extra info. All they could say was they have had a lot of applications recently.

Does anyone know what they actually do? We provide all the papers they need so what is their actual process? Police confirm it's not stolen, the testing place witnesses the chassis number and gives you a letter saying so, the Vintage Car Club verifies it's period correct and I signed a legal document saying I own it. I don't understand what the 'process' actually involves and can't find it on the web site at all. If we knew the process it would help when we have to apply to be able to send in the right things first time.

I think even if it comes through now I won't be able to get it looked at by the testing place until sometime early next year now I imagine. In early October when we went to see them to witness the chassis number they said they were already booked till Christmas. Plus I'll have to sort out a LVV inspector too I guess but no point doing that till I know I am even allowed to. Don't know what to do it I can't VIN it? 

As someone else said in another thread might be time for a different hobby than old cars!

Goat, any word on yours yet?

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No news on mine. I submitted it on the 26th of September. I've chased it up with 2 calls (3 weeks and 5 weeks after submission, which I think isn't being pushy) and then an email 2 weeks after that. Both calls said "its still being reviewed" and no reply from email (sent Thursday before last, 14 days ago, and got a confirmation saying there is a 10 business day turnaround) So fuck knows what's happening. Zero communication/visibility.

I'm just gonna put an old plate on the Ironhead and ride. The $400 fine of getting rolled is actually cheaper and less painfull then trying to do things legally....

Have to play nice too, as it ultimately falls in their hands if you can register it or not. Waiting for the ok before I tell them how appalling their service is... Though have another application for a different bike to submit straight after, so maybe should wait for that one too.

If I was that slow and poor at communication and non performant in my job, I'd be fired, not to mention how bad I'd feel for all these people waiting for "the go-ahead" for their pride and joys.

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I don't think that's pushy when their own email response says 10 working days and the web site somewhere says 20 I think. I understand the waiting until after your particular request is handled before complaining. Now I know about OIA requests thanks to them and the Police report when mine comes through I might do one to see how many applications they have actually had to process the last few months. That information should be publicaly available. They are putting more and more data online now too. You can see all the re-registrations here:

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/how-the-motor-vehicle-register-affects-you/motor-vehicle-registrations-dashboard-and-open-data/

According to that there were 17 re-registered cars in November. In October there were only 8. And in September 12. Don't know how many would be CA03 process ones though. A lot probably have old papers/lapsed existing rego.

You can filter on motorcycles too. 24 in November.

I am trying to find the actual API for this stuff which should be about somewhere I think thanks to all the open government data stuff. If you're a computer geek type like me they are quite fun to play with.

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Every month I get an email from NZTA an I get excited thinking my CA03 has finally come through but no, it's just an update on the Peka Peka to Otaki Road progress. I am looking forward to that opening as then the current roads around where I am will get quieter and be far nice for driving my vintage cars on. If I am allowed to of course.

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Well, they declined my CA03 application. I got this today:

 

Quote

 

Good afternoon Simon

Apologies again for the detail in our response.

Your application was sent for review with our technical team.

Due to the replacement components, materials and engineering which has taken place during the restoration of your vehicle, it now falls outside of the standard or modified production vehicle and sits in line with the classification of scratch built historical replica.  

Please see the below link to the LVVTA info sheet for more information on this definition;

https://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/infosheets/LVVTA_Info_02-2018_Modified_Production_&_Scratch-built_Low_Volume_Vehicle_Definitions.pdf

Due to this, unfortunately I must decline your application for use of alternative documents.

Your vehicle must be referred to LVV for certification as a scratch-built historical replica.  

Please find the formal decline letter attached.

 

 

I was expecting to have to go though a LVV certifier at some point but apparently I need to go to them first now? I spoke to them and they said they can't do anything until it's in the system (which is what the exemption is for!) so how do you do that? You still have to work with an entry certifier. Apparently you can do both at the same time? Does the LVV certifier talk to an entry certifier for me?

So I don't know? Will having NZTA saying it is a Scratch Built Historic Replica help as that is the sub category where certain exemptions are allowed such as not needing dual circuit hydraulic brakes and so on.

The LVV chap I spoke to (who was nice and helpful) seemed to think it's not a historic replica as it's a scratch build body, not a copy of something original. The body is built to period though. It was common in the day for companies to provide bare chassis then the bodies coach built by someone else. Everything else on mine is standard Austin 7. I suppose I could just says it's an Austin 7 Ulster but I am so crap at aluminium body work so instead of square corners they came out round! 

With the Austin it's honestly getting to the point where it might not be worth it. They aren't high value cars. Is it worth now spending another 3k at least (and goodness knows how long) trying to get it on the road? Probably not. If they don't allow exemptions as it's not a replica of a production car adding all the things to meet the LVVTA standards in the manual is going to be nearly impossible. At least without totally changing the car so then it's no longer a vintage Austin 7. 

So what to do? Buy a bog standard one already registered and put my nicely rebuilt motor/gearbox/rear axle in it and throw away the body? Break it up and sell off the bits? Starting to feel it was 10 years of wasted time building it although I guess it was good practice for the Riley. The Riley at least has value. If I can't register that here it can be sold overseas and I won't lose money.

So talk to a LVV certifier next I guess. Not many around me (Kapiti) so hopefully one of them wants to do vintage cars?

Am honestly rethinking my choice of hobby...

 

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41 minutes ago, VintageSpecial said:

Well, they declined my CA03 application. I got this today:

 

 

I was expecting to have to go though a LVV certifier at some point but apparently I need to go to them first now? I spoke to them and they said they can't do anything until it's in the system (which is what the exemption is for!) so how do you do that? You still have to work with an entry certifier. Apparently you can do both at the same time? Does the LVV certifier talk to an entry certifier for me?

So I don't know? Will having NZTA saying it is a Scratch Built Historic Replica help as that is the sub category where certain exemptions are allowed such as not needing dual circuit hydraulic brakes and so on.

The LVV chap I spoke to (who was nice and helpful) seemed to think it's not a historic replica as it's a scratch build body, not a copy of something original. The body is built to period though. It was common in the day for companies to provide bare chassis then the bodies coach built by someone else. Everything else on mine is standard Austin 7. I suppose I could just says it's an Austin 7 Ulster but I am so crap at aluminium body work so instead of square corners they came out round! 

With the Austin it's honestly getting to the point where it might not be worth it. They aren't high value cars. Is it worth now spending another 3k at least (and goodness knows how long) trying to get it on the road? Probably not. If they don't allow exemptions as it's not a replica of a production car adding all the things to meet the LVVTA standards in the manual is going to be nearly impossible. At least without totally changing the car so then it's no longer a vintage Austin 7. 

So what to do? Buy a bog standard one already registered and put my nicely rebuilt motor/gearbox/rear axle in it and throw away the body? Break it up and sell off the bits? Starting to feel it was 10 years of wasted time building it although I guess it was good practice for the Riley. The Riley at least has value. If I can't register that here it can be sold overseas and I won't lose money.

So talk to a LVV certifier next I guess. Not many around me (Kapiti) so hopefully one of them wants to do vintage cars?

Am honestly rethinking my choice of hobby...

 

There is Andy Smith in Levin. Did you get the Mr Smith at LVVTA to talk to?

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I spoke to someone called Chris. He was helpful and confirmed some things. The main issue is not knowing that they'd class the car as a scratch built from the start because in the past, and not that distant, others have got cars though differently. There are now quite a few people in the VCC having difficulty.

I had a hunt about and found this page that shows the LVV process: https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/warrants-and-certificates/modifying-your-vehicle/lvv-certification-process/#build

For a scratch built car it seems the LVV certification and Entry certification steps happen at the same time to be able to get a VIN? The first entry certifier who I spoke to is the one who sent me the CA03 form to fill out in the first place!

The two closest LVV certifiers are Andy Smith in Levin and Ken McAdam in Wellington it seems. Will try ringing them tomorrow.

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