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re-registering a vehicle


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VTNZ have a stat Dec form on their server, its file VTTE010

IMG_20211007_074013.thumb.jpg.6ee7b7606450dfa705efa918e4ea8dea.jpg

 

Anything that says I do solemnly swear on it is legal as per nzta guidelines

I just go get vtnz to print them out for me cos I ain't paying for printer ink 

 

 

No need to have the previous owner sign it

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That form that @piazzanoob linked is what NZTA told me I needed to submit so sent one out to me to print off. My situation is I have got a vehicle that has all its tags, they all line up, but came with another vehicles licence plates. Forgetting the incorrect number plates and referring to the vehicles OEM frame number and body tag identifiers - there is no history of it in NZTA's database. Vehicle is a mid 80's item. The part that stuck in my mind from my phone discussion with them is that there must be a part (I dunno - I never read right through it) that one of NZTA's 'agents' had to fill in. This to verify that what was being submitted to NZTA did indeed describe the vehicle sitting in front of the agent. This to start the VIN process. 

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4 hours ago, VintageSpecial said:

 

  • Vin/Chassis verification from Key delivery service partner (AA, VINZ or VTNZ)
  • NZ Police vehicle of interest report
  • Document(s) confirming past vehicle history and where it came from
  • Document(s) to support the purchase of the vehicle (Names on handwritten receipt does not match with the applicant name. Therefore we cannot establish connection between the applicant and the seller)
  • Signed & Witnessed statutory declaration confirming vehicle ownership

 

 

I have used the alternatives docs process recently, it is confusing and they ask for the things you don't have.

The vin/chassis numbers will need to be verified as mentioned, I got a handwritten confirmation on vtnz letterhead, also it needs to be done by the actual compliance person and not just one of the wof guys. This was needed before submitting the form so they were wrong about not bringing it in.

As far as the police thing, I would go into a station and try to get someone to write down the vehicle isn't showing as stolen and have them sign and stamp or whatever.

Vehicle history is tricky, you will need to flesh out what you have. Copies of old photos, of all correspondance, if you have his email send another and if it bounces back saying it is invalid then add that to your submission. Even a screenshot of a white pages search that you weren't able to find them. Write down any info the previous owner yarned about when you picked it up and add that. I had similar lack of history so I was emailing companies in Japan to get them to confirm they had no info, gotta get creative.

Not sure what is going on with the receipt thing, you will have to explain why the name doesn't match yours, maybe get a jp to sign this.

Fill out a statutory declaration that you own the vehicle and get a jp to sign, piece of piss.

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@VintageSpecial

Having registered a few vehicles, the process is far from clear. And everyone you talk to gives you a different list of hoops you need to jump through. Its pretty terrible actually. There should be a set process to follow. 
I'm currently going though an alt docs application. So will report back on the outcome.

 

Seeing you've got that response back, that is promising. All but two of those bullet points is easy peasy. 

  • Identifier sighting - easy
  • Stat dec for ownership - easy
  • Police report - easy? As @kickersaid, you should just be able to rock up to a cop shop and get then to write something on an official letterhead.

The vehicle history, and ownership docs could be a pain. For the ownership, the best you could do would be a couple of Stat decs, one saying you believe you're the entitled owner of the car. The other saying how you purchased the car and where, when and who you purchased it off. They don't seem to put much weight on stat decs (so why do we have them???) but that's probably as good as you can do seeing you don't have a bill of sale or anything.

Documents for the cars history, this is where the VCC stuff would come into play I assume. Basically saying that this was a model of car that was in NZ yada yada. Does it have an old number plate etc? Any old pics of it with a plate?


Its a pretty fucked up system as Kicker said, you're applying to get permission to comply it without documents, but you need to supply all the documents you need to register it. I don't understand. Silly stuff. And doesn't help that everyone you talk to has a diiferent set of requirements. Maybe if its too hard, try a different compliance place?

Good luck in any case, and post your outcomes in the thread @AllTorque mentioned to help future peeps.

 

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I have the two forms the VCC provide, one is the date of manufacture and authenticity statement. A VCC person comes and verifies the car and what you have, you provide photos, id marks and so on then it goes to the VCC who send you a form stating all of this as well as what category the car is in VCC terms. That should be enough to satisfy the verification of chassis number. To be honest your average inspector would probably struggle to know where to look for identifiers on most pre war cars or what identifiers should be there. I'd probably have to take in the books to show them what to expect.

The other VCC form is the statutory declaration and yes, that one is witnessed and signed by a JP so that should be fine too. 

I'll ring them later and see what they say. 

One thing for people buying cars off TradeMe, take copies of everything. The TradeMe history only goes back 45 days it seems. I bought mine 10 years ago so there is no hope it's in TradeMe still. All I have is a partial screenshot. No emails unfortunately. I have email going back 25 years all archived from different programs but haven't found that particular time period in any of my old records. Was probably between mail programs or something.

I think you are right about the Police Report thing and going to a station. The 105 operator suggested trying that and the VCC form has fine print at the bottom saying 'Some Police stations still provide this'. No hints which though. And they don't list individual station phone numbers anymore, it all goes through 105. Hopefully I can get transferred to an actual Policeman at a desk to ask!

It is a bit annoying having to prove to then history of the car when they originally had it (well, the Post Office) and they threw it away. The motor vehicle records were computerised by NZ post in the late 80s. But they only entered currently live registrations. Then a current system was built in 1996 and the records transferred across. CarJam explain it here: https://www.carjam.co.nz/cms/2009/07/11/registration-information-for-older-vehicles/

I have been working with an archivist to find out exactly what happened to the undigitised documents. Are they still about somewhere? She's still looking into it for me. 

@AllTorque

It was that thread that lead me to oldschool in the first place! Very interesting. It shows the ever changing, inconsistent process.

Simon

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No pics unfortunately and no old plates or registration stickers. The guy it came from had built it as a special. I literally pulled the body he had made off by hand and started from scratch. At the time I started the advice was you'll be fine getting it through, no need to worry about it yet. That was 10 years ago. Things change! I can use the chassis number to date when the car was likely made but I have not been able to find any sort of export/import records.

Simon

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@VintageSpecial

The sighting of the vehicle identifiers is pretty much to just prove that the vehicle you have pictures of and are referring to in the supporting documentation is real. hah. 
Needs to be a compliance person. And you show them where the numbers are, and they just sign a bit of paper saying "Yep, i've seen a real vehicle and it has these chassis/engine numbers". They don't check if the numbers are correct for the vehicle etc. Just that there is a IRL vehicle with these identifiers. So the person in the office assessing your application knows you haven't just made some shit up and are seeking permissions to register a couch for example.

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The idea behind the VCC documents is they are meant to be recognised even though it is some random old guy who does the 'inspection' to be honest! They, the VCC that is, even state that they are the historic vehicle authority in NZ and have a relationship with NZTA. NZTA have an example of the document on their site even. But then they (VCC) also just said they were having meetings with NZTA and the transport minister recently to show them all this as if it were a new thing so maybe everyone has forgotten. 

When I last spoke to NZTA the guy was very pleasant and trying to be helpful but did seem completely in the dark as to how things should happen. He said usually the approval documents the CA03 generate go to the testing place directly so they know they are allowed to start the process. I  pointed out there is only one place on the form to fill in an applicants details so he was confused as to whether a testing station or the individual was supposed to fill in the form as the applicant.

It's really not clear at all. If you don't know about the CA03 form there seems to be no easy way to find out about it on the NZTA website. The only mention of it is the page the form itself is on. I have never found anything that explains the actual process.

Simon

 

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I believe the process (which i am currently following) is:

  1. Go to compliance place with all your docs ready and explain what you want to do. i.e. register the car
  2. Compliance place assesses documentation you have to see if they are happy with it, if not they will ask you to fill out the required exemption form. I've had to do Exemption from border check, and Alt docs
  3. Go an get as much info together as you can, as @kicker said, pad this out with as much shite as possible, to make it look like you've gone the extra mile
  4. Both of these require sighting of vehicle and identifiers by compliance agent. (to prove vehicle exists)
  5. Submit the form and play waiting game.
  6. Hopefully get your approval
  7. Return to compliance place with your approval, pass wof/compliance check, pay for a new plate
  8. ....
  9. Profit?

Step 5 is the bastard. Which you're half way through, so there looks like there is hope for you!

Also, because it literally comes down to someone's mood on the day, it pays not to piss off these people, be super polite and patient, as they can rain on your parade if you upset them.
Its appalling I know. How fucked up that a process like this isn't black and white. But just gotta jump through the hoops, can give them a 1 star review once you have a plate on the car :)

 

AFAIK, the VCC stuff is just to show that the car is a real make and model, and complied to the standards at the time. That's all, not sure why/how that is useful for registering. But they seem to list it on the NZTA website. Just another shitty hoop to jump though.

Its a game. Have to play it. It sucks.

Gotta pay the cost to be the boss.

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Yup gotta play the game

50 minutes ago, VintageSpecial said:

When I last spoke to NZTA the guy was very pleasant and trying to be helpful but did seem completely in the dark as to how things should happen. He said usually the approval documents the CA03 generate go to the testing place directly so they know they are allowed to start the process. I  pointed out there is only one place on the form to fill in an applicants details so he was confused as to whether a testing station or the individual was supposed to fill in the form as the applicant.

 

They send it to the station that verified it ;-)

There isn't much info out there on the process it would be a good idea to take on board what we are saying, or not but good luck with that.

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Definitely taking it onboard, thanks. It's good to hear other peoples experiences and their work arounds. Looks like a trip to town to visit the Police and find a JP is in order soon!

Also for us there is possibly an extra step 7.5 - Get the body low volume certed. That one is very hit and miss it seems. Some testing places will say you have to, others say you don't. So you have to find the 'right' one.

Simon

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Basically yeah, play the game. hah.

No point arguing with the compliance people, as if they get a chip on their shoulder its pretty much game over. Even if they're blatantly wrong. hah. I've been told stuff that I know says otherwise on NZTA website. Its painful, but just gotta suck it up and be nice, as at the end of the day, its their call if you can register your vehicle or not.

Also, keen to hear about archived vehicle records. I'd assume they'd all be destroyed, as archive requirements are usually around 7 years. But man, would be awesome if they were sitting in a building somewhere in palmy. Be awesome to digitize them. Be super useful for many enthusiasts trying to get old stuff on the road. Cos yea, its NZTAs fault there is no history!

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2 hours ago, Goat said:

@VintageSpecial

The sighting of the vehicle identifiers is pretty much to just prove that the vehicle you have pictures of and are referring to in the supporting documentation is real. hah. 
Needs to be a compliance person. And you show them where the numbers are, and they just sign a bit of paper saying "Yep, i've seen a real vehicle and it has these chassis/engine numbers". They don't check if the numbers are correct for the vehicle etc. Just that there is a IRL vehicle with these identifiers. So the person in the office assessing your application knows you haven't just made some shit up and are seeking permissions to register a couch for example.

OK, I spoke to a very helpful chap at NZTA. He said he didn't deal with CA03s himself but he explained the process extremely well and what they ask for and why as well as what they are looking for you to supply. What they want is the list the replied to me with after I sent in the application. Knowing all of this before hand would make the process simpler. This is what they want and they ask all applicants for this:

  • Vin/Chassis verification from Key delivery service partner (AA, VINZ, VTNZ)
  • NZ Police vehicle of interest report
  • Document(s) confirming past vehicle history and where it came from
  • Document(s) to support the purchase of the vehicle (Names on handwritten receipt does not match with the applicant name. Therefore we cannot establish connection between the applicant and the seller)
  • Signed & Witnessed statutory declaration confirming vehicle ownership

The first step you do need to have a testing place physically see the vehicle and verify it is real as Goat says. They give you a document confirming this.

The NZ Police report is just a document from the Police saying they have no interest in the car, i.e. it's not stolen.  He did say if you had this confirmed in an email from the Police that would be enough but I haven't worked out how you can do that. I will go to the Police station and get something physical off them.

The next two documents they discuss they want as much information as possible as others here have mentioned. Photos, history, previous rego, old plates, etc, etc.

If you don't have anything you can declare that as part of the statutory declaration of ownership. So in my case I can specifically say the car was bought on TradeMe 10 years ago, I have no way to get the original auction details, no way to get in touch with the previous owner and so on. You lay all this out in the declaration and have it witnessed/signed.

He agreed the process isn't well documented but did say it always works the same on their end.

The VCC documents help as supporting documentation to some degree I think but they are not the documents they need. This is not clear at all on the VCC side. I suspect they help once the compliance place is looking at it the actual vehicle saying what is it and can you prove that. 

So all the answers were here in the forum, thank you. It's just piecing them all together to fit what NZTA want. And I will be giving the VCC some feedback on their part (or not!) of the process. All the NZTA people I have spoken to have been very helpful and polite but it helps to know what you need to ask them.

I'll update when I actually get all the pieces together and see what happens next.

Simon

 

 

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The process isn't really that vague or complicated tbh, and as you say, almost everything you outlined has been discussed previously in the re-rego thread.

The only complexity is that you cannot provide a decent paper trail of how you became the owner, but a jp signed declaration should take care of that. 

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Thanks! The problem is the process isn't documented at all on any official site that I have found. Searching for CA03 only brings up the page the document itself is on. And that doesn't mention needing the Police Report for example. You either have to know about that from experience (via here or other place people have discussed it) or they have to email you after you have sent in the application asking for it (as they did for me).

Even the process documented on the NZTA site for Entry Certification doesn't mention the process around the use of the CA03. It's only mentioned in the reference materials section here, item 56, Alternative Documents Form. Only the page with the document itself even mentions CA03.

The page of interest is here: https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/entry-certification/reference-materials

If you select print as PDF (top right) you can get it all in one document to read (it's quite interesting). The link for the whole document is here: https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/entry-certification/intro

This explains why different testing places have different levels of knowledge about it. Even the NZTA person I spoke to said that if a testing place hadn't had to do one before they probably wouldn't know about it.

It's good that we have it here now and I will probably send a letter in to the VCC for publishing in the club magazine so people there know too.

It keeps reminding me of this quote though:

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
 Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

 

Simon

Edited by VintageSpecial
Added link to print entire document as PDF.
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