Orange Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Hi, I'm going to be getting a 2L pinto rebuild and worked, before I go to the engine re builders Id like to have a fair idea on what and where the best places to spend the money are, I know this has been asked a few times already, except I have a real budget and I'm not asking for 200hp+ lol Anyway, I've got a budget of around 3g give or take, a complete 205 motor + plus a mate has a 1600 pinto head which has been mildly ported with 2L valves for sale cheap apparently. Um it's going into a mk2 escort which is already set up for a 2L and will be accompanied by a 5 speed sierra box also. So the question is where and what should I been spending the money on and a estimate of how much power to expect? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyteler Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 From my understanding, the problem's with Pinto's lie in the head. If you're getting a mildly ported head, I'd do some more port work to it, but by someone who yo know, knows the heads, because they're not friendly to bodge jobs. An angry cam and carbs to match the head work, bore it out slightly, forged internals, flat-top or domed pistons to raise the compression, lightened flywheel, heavy duty clutch, spend the rest on rolling road tuning, not that there'll be much, if any left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidian Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 hone, cleanup, forgies, rings, arps, valves, undead 2hnd turbo, injection from sierra/whatever, 2ndhnd ecu, done. then scavange wreckers for s/hand pipes and coolers and you can keep it under 3g doing most yaself, source out honing and shit. or bore, o/size pistons, grumpy cam, double springs, twins and easy 3g option 3 get another 5 going 205s, mint t28 and keep replacing them every couple/few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 The problem with turbos is a) the need for the ECU and $200 per hour dyno tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I wouldn't put a 1600 head on unless you want mad compression.. I think it's like 11-0 or something and no good for a street car. Ky is right. Spend all the money on the head and put everything else together yourself. I would contact nismo_capri from this forum and get one of his EFi replacement kits for your webber. He runs one in his escort with a mild cam and a worked head and it makes 98bhp at the rear wheels. So probably about 40hp up on standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 As RT said dont run the 1600 head.. I know from experience.. Its not worth the hassel for the increase in compression, and smaller!!! valves. Id say you wont get much performance stuff done at all for 3g however. By the time they sting you with labour youll be in the red. Depends what you rebuild when you get it rebuilt (there are "rebuilds" and rebuilds) Expect to pay at least $500 labour unless getting hooked up. If your engine needs a crank grind and rebore there goes $300. New Pistons $300 blah blah blah. Dont forget new water pump, thermostat, plugs and leads since ya wanna be going performance ways. Anyways, if you do have money left after the standard rebuild you need to look at what level of tune you want. 1. 120ish Hp single carb responsive street car. For this I would'nt even touch the head.. maybe put in inserts so you can run normal gas. Id Buy one of the mentioned carbs off Nismo Capri, A Kent FR32 cam and followers, an adjustable cam gear, lighten the flywheel a tad, extractors and get a tune. Assuming your engine rebuild cost under 1g that should net you nice power at only a tad over 3g. 2. 120-140hp Doing the same as above but with $1000 worth of headwork. Ie. larger valves and a rougher cam should bag you and extra 10-20hp. 3. 150hp+ Balance the engine, do the above, twin 45's or 48 webers, think about forgies, raise comp. 4. 150hp+ Make a cheap EFI turbo setup, drop comp a tad and run standard internals. Best option in my eyes but prob cost similar to option 2 if you do a bit yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danger Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Whats a full on race head worth for a pinto engine? We had one kicking around for a while, Had cam, everything had been redone etc. Guy who used to race with it said it went just as well as his vizzard head. Could probably get it cheap and flick it off.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Depending on whats done it can be from $500-2000 I guess. Larger valves, a large cam, Vizzard ports would prob sell for $1000ish on trademe.. Im not sure really tho cause they are all differant and hard to judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 especially with pintos.. there are 'race' heads and there are race heads.. lols at 'fully worked 2L head' when its got some massive oldschool cam in it and some fool has been at the ports with a drill attachment! then again if it's done properly and isn't cracked or anything then it could be worth about $1500 or something. Alway crack test your heads before buying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danger Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Well the guy who built it has built more high performance motors than the average joker, used to have a rotary shop down here ages ago. Has built some crazy shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Yeah unfortunatly that doesnt mean shit when it comes to Pinto heads. Need to see port work, I have no idea what im looking for but RT and Nismo should have a fair idea. Could be a mint head or could be a dunga with less flow characteristics than a std one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 what he means is that a pinto is a bit of a speciality area. The normal rules don't apply in the same way and if you don't know these things then a lot of standard practise enhancements can actually make them worse. ie.. people who rebuild them and spend money on the bottom end like forged cranks etc when there is absolutely no need. And then put a cam in it and enlarge the ports when the ports are already massive. And then being shy on the timing when pintos love an abnormal about of advance timing. These sorts of things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggo Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 So if you have a mild cam is it okay to have an un-ported head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Yeap thats what im doing. It is always going to be better to have a properly ported head but.. the real benifits of it arnt till when you start changing carbs and running high lift cams. Im running a fully balanced engine with ligtened flywheel, an FR32 cam (which is a mint cam for an extra 30hp but with little to no tractability issues) Single 45 and extractors. That will be close on 130hp Id guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Just split all that extra shit into another topic as it was kinda not relevant to this thread. Bed times tho so catch 2moro. Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholdowa Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 The way to real power gain on a pinto head is to *ADD* material to improve flow characteristics in the inlet tract, removing that awful lip just before the valve and lessening the angle to the valve by lifting the floor, and to also improve the squish in the head chamber by reshaping it, adding in loads of material between the valves, but away from the plug to increase the CR, rather than just planing the block. All this takes a lot of work, but the latest mig brazing craze may make it easier. I'd love comments on that from people who actually know what they're talking about. (The group 1 valves were so big because technically those regs didn't allow any head work to be done. Still want a set though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteretep Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 as I always say, check turbosport http://turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=121873 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 So if you have a mild cam is it okay to have an un-ported head? From experience I would say it is a waste of time. Of course, it will be okay and provide a small enhancement but you'll never get the potential without a ported head on a pinto. Same with setting up the valve train geometry correctly. A cam which might add 15% power might only net you 4% on a standard head. For the cost of a cam I would never bother putting it on a standard head. Must be followed up with porting, even if it's just a mild port around the short side radius. Just this alone will make a huge difference. I've never gone to the extreme of adding material like sholdowa suggests. I'm not saying it's not good - I just reckon if you are prepared to go to those lengths you may as well just get a different engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Would be interesting to see what makes the most power. Standard engine with just a mild ported head and tune. or standard engine with just decent cam and tune. Ive had both a mildly ported head with cam and a mildly ported head without cam. The same head without the cam didnt seem any quicker than the standard engine. Is hard to compare by "feel" of speed however. Guess I can tell you the outcome once I put this standard head with cam on and get it running. Maybe I should spend $500 and get this one tidied up, just wouldnt know where to go for a decent $500 worth of porting on a pinto head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I've told you boys lots of times talk to nismo_capri off this forum. He ports heads for cash. You'd get a decent job for $500. The standard cam falls off the power at 5,000rpm. I like the mild cams that push the rev limit up a bit but doesn't loose too much punch down low. This and a decent port job seems to be the most guarenteed setup without too much effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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