Esprit Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 i only just realised ... your georgework for can-do ?? with winston... am i right That's the one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 ha yeap .. i meet you at winnies last lan at home good to see its comming along so nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 ha yeap .. i meet you at winnies last lan at home good to see its comming along so nicely Aah cool cool... I think I remember talking to you Small world! Must hit him up to host another lan at his place .... that is when my garage-bitch gives me some time off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 very much so...im the v8 mr2 guy keen on another weekend lan sould have the lux going soon ... will have to come up and go find a sweet spot for some camping and goodtimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 yeah that no.1 bearing looks pretty rugged. least it's done what its supposed to, to some degree, sacrificing the bearing material and saving the crank journal. Do you know if those engines typically have a bearing oiling problem on no. 1? definitely take out the crankshaft oilway plugs and clear out all the crap. if its not that I would be looking at the oilways in the block, its not uneard of for these to not be machined exactly as the should and one of the drillings only half meeting up with one of the other ones causing a restriction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I've not had a chance to run it past my UK K guru yet, but cylinder 2 and 3 were both showing signs of going the same way, although neither were ad bad as cylinder 1. I'm guessing the first journal is the last in the oil path. I know that the K runs a rather thick oil in comparison to many modern engines and it could be a symptom of being pushed too hard from cold. The previous owner, while observing the (very strict) servicing schedule, certainly wasn't much of a tinkerer/mechanical sorta person and I think that a lot of the issues with these cars stem from the fact that they only seem to go well with a LOT of TLC. The heartening thing is that this all points to the engine being rather tired and was most likely 10-20bhp down on the theoretical 190bhp. Given that it's being rebuilt fresh with a few tweaks and mods and I'm hoping to see about 205bhp, it should feel like a rocketship when it's back. Given that I was able to keep the K20-powered (N/A) Elises honest on the track before, I should be able to monster them afterwards. I'll be double-checking all the oilways before the rebuild (especially in the head area as the stock casting tends to obstrict them and the water galleries with flash). I'll also be fitting the later landrover oil-rail, which passes oil to the crank area. This is mainly to assist in block stiffness and stability at high RPM but I believe the oilways are larger in it too. I'll also be baffling the sump in the interest of safety as well as installing an oil pressure and temperature gauge... this was a mod I'd always planned but having seen this I reckon there's no time like the present! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 bearing delamination can be caused by a few things overly high oil pressure....driving hard when cold poorly constructed bearing...could just be a freek inaudible detonation.....perhaps get your injectors flowed/cleaned/checked ... you may have a partially blocked injector running one cylinder lean hope that helps v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 bearing delamination can be caused by a few thingsoverly high oil pressure....driving hard when cold poorly constructed bearing...could just be a freek inaudible detonation.....perhaps get your injectors flowed/cleaned/checked ... you may have a partially blocked injector running one cylinder lean hope that helps v Cheers mate, I suspect the first. The VHPDs run an unthermostatically-controlled oil cooler and I know the oil can take a good while to heat up. I'm always VERY careful but it's obvious that this damage has not happened recently and has not been the result of a one-off occasion. When the rebuild's done I shall be installing an oil temp/pressure gauge to keep an eye on things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 id still get the injectors checked....i could well be work a few more hp and a whole lot more throttle responce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 id still get the injectors checked....i could well be work a few more hp and a whole lot more throttle responce That'll all be done as a matter of course anyway.... got a long list of things to tick off before then. Injectors will be serviced before going back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsnik Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 dont be mistaken by the rain, southerlies, and gale force winds, its summer now, time to get it back on the road... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 dont be mistaken by the rain, southerlies, and gale force winds, its summer now, time to get it back on the road... Haha just goes to show you how the budget (in both time and money) can get blown on these projects! I'm aiming for completion in March... that'll make it a 12-month long project in all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Bloody hell! It does not look like it got hot (which is good). Was #1 the only B/E that looked like this? Is the #1 B/E journal the first to see the oil under pressure? On the Fords I have messed with it would be #3 Main Bearing that gets the oil first which would not support the excess oil pressure theory but may lend weight to vvega's injector issue theory (P.S. I have no idea what caused this delamination but am extremely interested to hear the diagnosis). Is this an east-west motor? I would expect to see more heat witness marks if there was mid corner oil starvation but could oil surge be a contributing factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 this is a K series Rover motor correct? These motors are extremely prone to getting very hot and blowing the head gasket immediately. I would get the crank checked that the journals have not ovalised.. it looks like the bearing has been chattering on the crank somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 it looks like the bearing has been chattering on the crank somehow. detanation causes the rod to virbrate on the journal and in turn defeats the oil suspension basically its like tapping on the babet with a hammer...hence why it delaminates cavatation in hydraulic pumps and on boat props looks identical cavatation is basically the reverse effect of detaination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Bloody hell! It does not look like it got hot (which is good). Was #1 the only B/E that looked like this? Is the #1 B/E journal the first to see the oil under pressure? On the Fords I have messed with it would be #3 Main Bearing that gets the oil first which would not support the excess oil pressure theory but may lend weight to vvega's injector issue theory (P.S. I have no idea what caused this delamination but am extremely interested to hear the diagnosis). Is this an east-west motor? I would expect to see more heat witness marks if there was mid corner oil starvation but could oil surge be a contributing factor? Yeah she was nasty alright! That was the only big end that looked like that, although ALL of them were JUST starting to show witnessing up around the very top of the upper shell and were obviously going the same way. I'm pretty sure #1 is the first in line for the oil feed (feed comes from the front in through the corresponding main bearing). There was definitely little heat involved, as there was no evidence of heat in bearing or crank and the bearing hadn't spun. Oil starvation typically isn't an issue with the K-series (although it IS when mounted longitudinally as in Caterhams etc, but it's Transverse in my car), although I will be fitting a baffled sump as an insurance measure upon reassembly. I've seen the same thing on other K-VHPD engines and it seems it's down to a few factors: [*:2y7mov79] Shit bearing material.... this has since been rectified and all new bearings are from a much higher grade of material than the OE spec when this engine was new[*:2y7mov79] Non-thermostat oil cooler.... The Exige S1 has one and it can take a very long time for the oil to reach running temperature. Many owners warm them up before thrashing them but without an oil temp gauge, the oil can still be quite cold (and high pressure) when you start piling the revs on. This could cause bearing break-up like this through cavitation. I'm going to be installing an oil temperature gauge and possibly a thermostatic bypass on the oil cooler... I may even solenoid-actuate this to allow for manual override we'll see.[*:2y7mov79] Problematic crankshaft balancing.... probably key to this problem is that there's large secondary out of balance load on the crankshaft caused by insufficient counterweighting. There's physically not enough space in the block to make large enough counterweights on the crank to counter the pistons and rods in the 1.8L engine size (bear in mind this engine was designed as a 1.1 and 1.4L engine, hence why it's so small and light). This out of balance causes a 2-tonne bending moment in the crankshaft between the main bearings, causing distortion in the crank and the block as well as causing other problems (like the ovalling evident on my pistons and liners) This is being rectified in my rebuild by strategcally inserting tungsten slugs into the counterweights to add mass where it's needed and to cancel out these forces. This has proven VERY successful in a handful of race engines that have been built recently in Lotuses and although expensive, it gets to the root of a problem that's been the main reliablilty killer in this engine when used at high RPM. KK... this engine has thankfully not suffered any overheating... My engine runs a remote thermostat which rectifies many of the overheating root causes. As for the crank, I'm throwing it away and getting a new one. I'm just going for a standard one at this point, although am considering a DKE steel one as a possible alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esprit Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 it looks like the bearing has been chattering on the crank somehow. detanation causes the rod to virbrate on the journal and in turn defeats the oil suspension basically its like tapping on the babet with a hammer...hence why it delaminates cavatation in hydraulic pumps and on boat props looks identical cavatation is basically the reverse effect of detaination Detonation doesn't seem to have been the issue here thankfully... the stock mapping is shocking but it errs on the side of being too rich rather than leaning out. The piston tops showed no evidence of anything untoward on the fuelling or timing leading to detonation. In the end, it matters not as the engine when rebuilt is getting run off an Emerald K3 ECU, which will be mapped appropriately once the engine's built and run in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 bit of interesting info for you audiable detination tends to show on the top of the piston inaudiable detination tends to show on the crown and ringlands hence why audable knocks holes in pistons and melts them and inaudiable destroys ringlands cracks rings and vibrates pistons detonation on stock ecu's is normally due to poor fuel .... eg caldena gtt's will eat themselves if they get given 91 octain by accident ... and it happens within a tank of gas ... been lots of cases in nz hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Ass Dragger Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 it looks like the bearing has been chattering on the crank somehow. detanation causes the rod to virbrate on the journal and in turn defeats the oil suspension basically its like tapping on the babet with a hammer...hence why it delaminates cavatation in hydraulic pumps and on boat props looks identical cavatation is basically the reverse effect of detaination Detonation doesn't seem to have been the issue here thankfully... the stock mapping is shocking but it errs on the side of being too rich rather than leaning out. The piston tops showed no evidence of anything untoward on the fuelling or timing leading to detonation. In the end, it matters not as the engine when rebuilt is getting run off an Emerald K3 ECU, which will be mapped appropriately once the engine's built and run in. Why are you going with the Emerald G3 ecu when it is excally the same as a link jsut in a differnt box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vvega Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 you can get adapter looms for k3's for them ... cant with link k3 ecu is equivilent to a g3 lem a g4 storm is a big step up to it .... but still no k series loom adapter k3 is about 2g nz landed g4 is 1500 ish you can get one of the new cut down motecs for the price of the k3 ... but then you have the increase cost of tuning etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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