danger Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Whos got any good info on 4linking rear ends? Looks like alot of measurements and shit, I'm sure I could build my own though. Been told the panhard rods off DX rolla's work well as 4links and they are adjustable as well. Figure, go weigh front and back at weigh station to work out centre of gravity then just mathematic that shit till it works. Anyone know if I can get 4 link kits or anthing that would have the brackets and rods already? Anyone got experience with these? Got an old hotrodding guy who's done a few who's gonna give me a few tips along the way. Also are there any real regulations on tubs? with thicknesses of the tubs and whatever? Haven't got in touch with my cert guy yet but shall do. Also, is it better to try rebuild a car to standard spec to get it back in the system before I start cutting it up or can I just reg a modified, dead reg car fresh from cert with no problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDE_BDY Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 DELETED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danger Posted December 26, 2006 Author Share Posted December 26, 2006 Bought Mutiny's mazda 1000 ute ages ago and am hoping to finally get around to picking it up within the next month and starting the build. Figured I'd just turn it into a 3/4 chassis with 4 link and probably shortened hilux lsd. Going for a stage 2 13bt and probably series 5 box Aim of the game really is to make a street legal dragster while still looking mild on the outside. How hard is it to set up a watts linkage? looks pretty complicated to me. Should be able to make my own but I don't know how well I'd go with certs doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danger Posted December 26, 2006 Author Share Posted December 26, 2006 I'm making the presumtion that just adding firmer leaves with the tubs wouldn't be up to standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDE_BDY Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 DELETED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danger Posted December 26, 2006 Author Share Posted December 26, 2006 Yeah I guess your right about the watts linkage I just could never get my head around the geometry of it. Shall get in touch with a certifier once I get the ute down here and get it to a solid state to start the build from. Hey thanks for the advice aye. Dane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismo.capri Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Whos got any good info on 4linking rear ends? Fred Puhn has this is the first book on suspension everyone should buy. If you are in chch pm me and I'll lend you mine. http://www.soloperformance.com/Shopping ... fault.aspx Description: To make your car handle, design a suspension system, or just learn about chassis, you'll find what you need here. Basis suspension theory is thoroughly covered: roll center, roll axis, camber change, bump steer, anti-dive, ride rate, ride balance and more. How to choose, install, and modify suspensions and suspension hardware for best handling; springs, sway bars, shock absorbers, bushings, tires, and wheels. Regardless of the basic layout of your car -- front engine/rear drive, front engine/front drive, or rear engine/rear drive -- it is covered here. Aerodynamic hardware and body modifications for reduced drag, high-speed stability and increased cornering power; spoilers, air dams, wings and ground-effects devices. How to modify and set up brakes for maximum stopping power and handling. The most complete source of handling information available. ``Suspension Secrets" explained in plain, understandable language so you can be the expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozin Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Got that book, it's a pearler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedy Al Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Firstly, Leave springs that are stiffer are going to give you massive tramp, umless you have some nice anti tramp bars on your leaves, Rods should be easy to make, if you get carried away, equal length is good, as it keeps your diff head sqaure to the ground, preventing universal bind up (its minimal, but any less wear on your uv jionts is good) depending on how much guard clearence you have, and how soft/hard your rear end is going to be, would determin what anit sway set up you run. Watts is easy, and keeps diff mostly central, except on extreme travels, Pan hard rod is really really easy, but will make your diff move to one side if you run a soft rear end, which for drag racing, would be prefered to help off the line traction. Third oyion, trangulated top arms. Can be short, will stop diff lateral movment (depending on how they are made, if using rose joints on you bars, then you will still need a lateral bar) Only down side is that if you run shorter top arms, your diff head will angle away from the ground at full bottom travel. Christ, anyway. Read a book, its pretty logical once you get your head around it hope that helps, some how Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ke36 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 looking at getting something like this for my ex lancer 4 link or 3 link with a panhard can i get a cert with a 3 link and panhard rod? just worried bout room for the 2 top arms in a 4 link would probly have to lose my rear seat if i wanted to top arms a decent length instead just have one arm down the side of the trans tunnel and adjustable rod end bolted onto a new bracket bottom arms would be easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ke36 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 also coomon widths for hiluxs seem to be 1390 and 1420mm the ex is 1400mm have heard you can safely cut around 15-20mm off a hilux axle spline and and it still fit sweet in the head so would i be able to cut 10mm off both axels and shorten the housing to suit or is this not true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 yeh thing with hilux diff will work. just swap axles left to right, if the splines are a bit worn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxtoy Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 looking at getting something like this for my ex lancer4 link or 3 link with a panhard can i get a cert with a 3 link and panhard rod? just worried bout room for the 2 top arms in a 4 link would probly have to lose my rear seat if i wanted to top arms a decent length instead just have one arm down the side of the trans tunnel and adjustable rod end bolted onto a new bracket bottom arms would be easy are you serious???? have you looked underneath your EX lancer??? they're already triangulated 4 link so thats that problem sorted one of the sweetest setups i've seen on a stock oldschooler, no shitty panhard rod. personally if i was designing a rear end setup i'd go for a triangulated 3 link like the drop shop builds for their project minitrucks. basically 1 top link at the centre of the diff that splits off into a mount on either side of the chassis then the normal two paralell bottom arms. i'll find a pic.............. for more info there's a build up thread here showing pretty much how its done: http://forums.minitruckin.co.nz/viewtop ... f=12&t=420 cheers Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ke36 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 ive been told by several people that my tirangulated 4 link is crap for handling so was just going on there advice (fairly serious track racers) anyways problem is no solved as if i dont shorten the deiff i can get it all done cheap cheap am going to stay with standard stlye mounts for now, if i get serious and cage the car may look at a 4 link with equall length rods turns out most common hilux rear end is 1470mm which is 35mm wider a side than my standard ex so going to run one of those and no spacers on my fwd offset rims and see if they just squeeze in 10mm wider than it should be but i can hopefully lip guards enough if i cant quite fit it in im guna take 10 or so mm off each side of the housing and then trim that off the splines should all come in under a grand hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxtoy Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 i've talked to a few rally guys about EX handling when i was trying to get mine to handle a bit better and they generally say good things about the way they drive. all the poms with EX2000's rave about them too, outdriving evo's and shit on their track days. if you're serious about spending that sort of money on handling ask about it on the lancer register http://www.lancerregister.com there's an EX2000 specific section with a bunch of guys who know pretty much everything there is to know about EX lancers. the main problem i used to have was destroying the stock bushes and its hard to get replacements because a lot of our aftermarket stuff comes from Aussie and they never had EX's. a good mod would be rosejointing your 4 link when you put the hilux diff in. the 1470mm diff is the most common, its very hard to come across the 1390mm ones because the toyota guys want them as well and they're pretty much only from the oldest nz new hilux's which are ultra rare too. if you're serious about it though a shortened hilux diff with mounts welded on usually goes for around the 1K mark, worth it really if you're going to run some serious power. cheers Matt edit: also there's a reason that rwd mitsi's have a wider track at the front than the rear, it helps with handling so you may find that the 10mm either side makes a lot more difference than you're expecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ke36 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 ok i may just get rid of that 10mm to start with straight away then seems like it will be easy enough why would it be a problem? yea is looking like it will cost about 1k all up which isnt bad for something ill never have to replace yea have had a look on lancer register one thing i saw a nz guy mention was to move the lower control arm pivot point down 12 mm it will greatly improve traction & stability so is he saying lower the two points where the lower arms bolt to the body by 12mm?as in make a box section or something? i assume then changing the diff pinion anlge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxtoy Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 i've read a similar (or the same) thread previously (haven't owned an EX for quite a while now so haven't kept up with MLR) and i'm pretty sure they're referring to moving the bottom mounts on the diff down to stop the diff twisting when you put power on it. have you considered trying to find an EX1800 diff??? there are LSD's available and they're pretty strong, the rally guys i know (rallitubby off MLR and his driver Mike) put 220bhp through their one and don't have too many problems (read occasionally rebuild centre) plus solid discs at rear are a bonus. that said it would probably cost you the same as a hilux, i got almost $500 when i sold my EX1800 complete diff and it was just an open centre, would probably be the same again with LSD. next time i talk to Brett (rallitubby) i'll see if i can pass his number on, he's full of info on EX's and is usually pretty happy to pass it on. cheers Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDE_BDY Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 DELETED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ke36 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 cheers for the advice guys rxtoy- yea have looked at ex lsds rear end but at around 500 for the housing then up to 1500 for the head if you can find one its not really a good option, too rare and expensive when a hilux will do the same and hold more power yea wde body 4 link with equal length parallel arms would be the best option but its a road car first track car etc second so back seat is staying as said above if i end up gettin serious and throw a cage in it thats when ill go with that option i had looked at lowering the mounting points on the diff when changing the mounts over so that when i lower the car it keeps the suspension geometry more like it is when it is at standard height could i just drop them by x amount (say im lowering the car 80mm drop them by 50mm to elivate some of the lowering changes) or do i need to really set the car up at the lowered height then see what amount i need to have them lower(was planiing on just taking both diffs to an engineering shop and them swapping them over so would be hard to do it without car there) how would u change the top links?as they are directly on top of the housing so u couldnt lower them ?? the car will definately be getting a serious source of lowering, i like my cars low im really tossing up two options at the mo just a straight swap of mounts (maybe get them lowered slightly if i can) change to primera discs etc for around 900-1k done by an engineering shop down here who are very competent, done it a million times before or a 3 link with panhard for $1500 done by a backyarder whos done a few diffs but not alot (seems pretty onto it) made the jig etc and 4 linked his ae86 and a mates starlet also worried about the certing of this?can a 3 link be street legal? is it going to be a huge advantage over a street driven car for the extra cash? im a newb to all this shit so any adice from people who no more than mee is appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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