Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 6, 2023 Author Share Posted February 6, 2023 Oh that's cool. Yeah hopefully when I sort the shift out I can rig something. Pushed for time atm as want to use it for Munro rally, but since that's in like 3 days and I'm still waiting for parts can't see it happening. If I get rid of that shifter arm in the future I can always get another sprocket cover... Will def look at something like what you've posted though, great pic... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 6, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 6, 2023 Carrying on this arvo, I replaced the bearing in the clutch basket, was a lot of metal underneath it, and the bearing was pretty noisy when I spun it, so not before time... When I put the basket in place and spun it there was obvious metal on metal contact somewhere, a regular 'tick' as it spun, suspected the welds or weld splatter as they were the highest spot... So hit them with a flap disc, covered the new bearing while doing this to avoid bits getting in... But didn't work. Tried screwing the retaining nut right in but made no difference, but removing it fixed it, so I put plasticine on it to see where things were hitting... Was obviously only just hitting on the high centre section of the nut, so I skimmed it in the lathe, didn't alter the amount of threads so should make no difference... And spins freely now... No noise and the kicker ratchet engages well, getting there... 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Shit yes, The dedication for kick start is sooo good. Love it. Any chance i'd be able to borrow that kick ratchet alignment tool you made some time as I've got an electric only ironhead waiting in the wings that i want to convert to kick only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 6, 2023 Author Share Posted February 6, 2023 Yeah no prob. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregT Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Don't loctite your 5mm screws in. Either spot weld the heads or grind a notch in the heads and dot punch surrounding material into it. I've done a lot of clutch adaptations and those screws you do not want to come out..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 Decided to check kickshaft end play so I pulled shim out and measured on the dial. There was noticeable movement, and from the zero position it moved to around 0.78mm, roughly 30/1000 of an inch. Way outside the 0.001 - 0.007 inch recommended in the service manual... With the shim back in, it felt much better, and measured nearer 0.28mm, around 11/1000"... I know these don't add up, with the shim being 0.007 thick, but it was a very quick check without putting the sprocket cover on, so there was a little up and down movement at the far end making the numbers look worse, and the dial gauge wasn't aligned properly. If I re-did the measurement with the dial gauge perpendicular in the middle of the shaft and the other end of the shaft in the bush, I'm sure it would be more accurate. Looks like I definitely need the shim though anyway... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 Went through my stash and found some thin spacer washers and had a measure up. The kit washer came in at 0.008" on my damaged vernier (was raining so couldn't be bothered getting he micrometer out of the other shed)... Found a washer slightly thicker, at 0.025"... And buttoned things up, can see the shim now, and with everything snug but not tight I bent the tab on the lockwasher... And had a delivery in the mail, got the spacer that was holding things up... I'd cut down some allen head countersunk screws, so cleaned them up and fitted the ratchet with Loctite 263. Debated adding a small weld to them but supposedly 263 is a permanent threadlocker, so should be ok... And slid on the sprockets and new chain... At this point I couldn't find the large nut for the clutch, so spent an hr or so searching my parts and even the rubbish bins in case I'd discarded it. Eventually found it behind the engine on the bench, which was a relief, but I stopped here so I could read up on the correct way to tighten things up... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 14, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 14, 2023 Got everything torqued up ok, with minimal skinned knuckles... Also fitted new pushrod corks and clean, straight oil tubes and new rubbers, plus new pushrods... Busy day Munro rallying, shot home to do a bit more after the beach racing, finally a chance to try out the clutch spring modification I bought way back in 2014. Be interesting to see how it goes... Basically replaces the double spring with a machined ring that holds multiple clutch springs... And reverse method of putting things back together, I've misplaced my new nyloc nuts so will replace these holding ones when it's back on the bike... Looked at the the oil pump check ball seat, hard to tell how it looks... Using the usb camera probe didn't help much... So gently tapped a 3/8" ball bearing with a rod and fitted a new ball while I had the opportunity. Next up, putting the heavy thing back in the hole... Used the laydown method as I was on my own (my mates were either working or track testing for racing tomorrow)... Got one rear mount bolt on, which was enough to stand up... And got a couple more in, enough for the day, cos it was bloody hot... 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 I had no idea how the engine plates and hardened bite washers went back together, I'd taken photos but there was so much oily road grime I couldn't tell anything from them. Some searching on the XL Forum/Sportsterpedia gave great instructions, so all back together... And installed/tightened all the rear engine mounts as well... Cleaned up the starter motor and solenoid plunger, and replaced the rubber boot after knocking out the roll pins to remove the spring... And loosely installed them with other parts, as will have to shift things around when I run oil lines... After a slight tickle up with a file, there seems to be enough clearance for the shift arm under the sprocket cover... Oil lines will be the next issue, the kicker shaft runs right though where I had 3 lines neatly routed previously, behind the sprocket. And yes there is a slight crack on one of the alloy mounts, I've decided to ignore it... Oil lines will be this weeks mission to sort... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 Did a little tonight, replaced the clutch nuts with new nylocs (couldn't find the ones I'd bought so got some new ones) just snugged them up against the spacer tubes one at a time... And fitted the primary cover after cleaning it up and fitting a new gasket, also cleaned up the threads on the clutch cable adjuster... Gave the clutch a rudimentary squeeze, quite hard at the lever, I did use heavy duty big twin springs in the new clutch spring housing so that may be the difference? Plus there is no oil in it yet, it's not adjusted, and the clutch may need a few operations to loosen up, we'll see how things go... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 Had a busy couple of days, adjusted the clutch and it felt slightly better, but still not releasing completely, hopefully it'll shake loose with some oil in it and the engine running...? Fitted the starter housing and was installing the angled oil tank bracket when the vented bolt snapped off, inside the case. Luckily was an easy extraction as it already had a hole drilled through it... Debated fitting a solid bolt but it's not an easy thing to replace without pulling lots of gear off again, so decided to make one. Machined a nozzle out of brass... And brazed it into a drilled bolt... Fitted it and carried on, bit concerned that the solenoid bolts up on an angle...? But decided to carry on, it was a stinking hot day so my apprentice found some shade for a snooze, while I got sunburnt... Installed all new oil lines, fitted tank, battery tray, battery and connected starter wiring... And oil was getting to the filter when I kicked it over, thought I was close to cranking it on the starter... Except nothing happened, apart from a click from the starter relay... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 Slept on it as I couldn't face pulling everything out again. This morning I confirmed the battery was fully charged, and tested the solenoid in place by connecting 12V directly to the pull in coil, still nothing, so (sigh) pulled everything out again... Bench tested the solenoid and it was definitely working OK, both the pull-in and hold coils worked perfectly, better than the old one I tested beside it. I wondered if things were binding as it was on an angle, so fitted the solenoid nut as a spacer, looked much better... And it seemed to work better. I pulled the starter gear shaft out and ensured the thrust washer was in place, and re-installed everything, with thick washers as well as the factory spacer, it definitely looks better aligned... I'd removed the primary cover and checked operation, a solid clunk as the gear moved in and out on the starter button, which was a relief. Unfortunately the starter motor didn't spin, it was getting power and spun ok on the bench so not sure what the issue is here, maybe something is binding...? Carried on with other stuff to make some progress, fitted the chain to help spinning the engine when adjusting the valve clearances, and discovered the new sprocket cover hit it (couldn't even get cover on). Ground out a bit of material for clearance and fitted cover... So getting there. The starter is a worry but everything works in isolation so must be solvable. also welded up the broken tank mount so another job ticked off. Still got carb to fit, ignition and valves to set, clutch to sort and general fettling, but feels like I'm getting closer... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 Tardy update, had other stuff happening. I popped out to the shed to look at it and noticed it'd dropped all its oil all over the floor. A bit discouraging and bloody messy so I just ignored it for a while... Wheeled it out yesterday and cleaned up the floor, and tools, and everything else that had been rust-proofed. Checked my oil line connections, drain plugs and oil filter etc, nothing obvious so I assume it leaked out the clutch cover, which was a bit loose, a worry if so as it seems it's still collecting oil... But a bigger worry is that the starter still isn't operating. The solenoid is banging in with a hearty clunk, but the motor does not spin. I know the starter works as it spins well on the bench, even tried connecting another battery in parallel but same result, so it's not a low voltage issue. Tried measuring voltage at starter terminal but it goes to zero when trying to start, so measured current, it's drawing a decent 26A DC, so the motor is trying to run... Can only guess it's mechanically binding somewhere? Kicker spins engine ok, so unsure where to look next. I'll open the primary cover next time I feel enthused enough to look at it... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 Popped the cover to see what is happening in there, had a 3am think that maybe the tension on chain was too tight, or the loose cover meant the bush wasn't supported or something, plus the only change since it used to work was the new clutch spring setup... Looks like oil is coming through transfer valve into primary, as designed. Not sure if it's too much until things are running... Supporting the end of the shaft with my hand, I hit the starter button and the ring gear is definitely engaging properly... So I removed the clutch innards and slackened off the tensioner in case anything was mechanically binding... And with the case back on, the result was exactly the same, a solid clunk as the solenoid pulled in and ring engaged, but no rotation, even with another battery hooked up... Then I put 12V straight on the starter terminal (another bike battery connected in parallel)... The starter motor spun freely when not engaged, then when I tried with the starter button in and solenoid engaged, the engine spun over perfectly, which was a relief... So there's still an issue but at least I know things do work. Not sure if it's low voltage or a wiring issue, but at least I can put things back together after logically sorting the problem... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOHC Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 This oil is good for old ironheads, your engine wont wet sump as bad and spew out every little place it can and your front cylinder will love you. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted April 23, 2023 Author Share Posted April 23, 2023 So been dicking around for ages trying to get the starter motor working. Everything checked out ok, tested new solenoid, tested motor, tried old solenoid, tried new one again, each time having to shift oil lines, tank and wiring to get things in and out. It's been a cunt really... Solenoid works like this (simplified circuit)... Start button energises the pull-in coil, with current going through starter motor until the main contacts close (which removes voltage across the coil) then the hold-in coil remains energised until the start button/relay is released... Diagnostics proved everything worked except the starter motor engaging, hard to test as I couldn't just run a wire to eliminate the starter motor as it would become a short circuit if the contacts closed. A 12V lamp worked, and showed I wasn't getting full 12V at the motor terminal, was reduced by volt drop across the coils... So all pointed to something mechanical preventing full movement of the plunger. Mechanically the Bendix sprocket and lever looked fine, but looking through old pics I realised a roll pin on the plunger had worked itself through the operating arm lever, happened way back somehow and I hadn't noticed as it was under a spring... Fitted a new 1/8" pin, slightly longer to prevent it happening again... And works perfectly. Except for the electrical gremlins that now seem to have appeared. I have a few things disconnected though so will work through the issues logically... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eatsrootsleaves Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 On 09/04/2023 at 15:28, Lord Gruntfuttock said: Popped the cover to see what is happening in there, had a 3am think that maybe the tension on chain was too tight, or the loose cover meant the bush wasn't supported or something, plus the only change since it used to work was the new clutch spring setup... Looks like oil is coming through transfer valve into primary, as designed. Not sure if it's too much until things are running... Supporting the end of the shaft with my hand, I hit the starter button and the ring gear is definitely engaging properly... So I removed the clutch innards and slackened off the tensioner in case anything was mechanically binding... And with the case back on, the result was exactly the same, a solid clunk as the solenoid pulled in and ring engaged, but no rotation, even with another battery hooked up... Then I put 12V straight on the starter terminal (another bike battery connected in parallel)... The starter motor spun freely when not engaged, then when I tried with the starter button in and solenoid engaged, the engine spun over perfectly, which was a relief... So there's still an issue but at least I know things do work. Not sure if it's low voltage or a wiring issue, but at least I can put things back together after logically sorting the problem... So if the oil bag level is still reducing after bike has been sitting and u have reseated the 3/8 ball bearing , what happens to the pre 77 (eskimo pie) style oil pumps is the bush on the drive wears and the gravity forces the oil up the shaft into the cam chest . To fix this is a pain as you have to remove the pump ! but once removed take the lid off it and get a groove machined into the top of the pump lid and press in a round rubber seal to seal the shaft . Unfortunate but it happens to all of these pre 77 bikes sooner or later , and if oil was filling up the primary just unscrew the mesh valve and replace with a new one , do not block it off , be sure that your starter motor mount is sealed well because they have a habit of leaking , and its impossible to see where the oil leak is coming from ! the P cams are a very good all round cam , nice bike and good luck . On 09/04/2023 at 15:28, Lord Gruntfuttock said: Popped the cover to see what is happening in there, had a 3am think that maybe the tension on chain was too tight, or the loose cover meant the bush wasn't supported or something, plus the only change since it used to work was the new clutch spring setup... Looks like oil is coming through transfer valve into primary, as designed. Not sure if it's too much until things are running... Supporting the end of the shaft with my hand, I hit the starter button and the ring gear is definitely engaging properly... So I removed the clutch innards and slackened off the tensioner in case anything was mechanically binding... And with the case back on, the result was exactly the same, a solid clunk as the solenoid pulled in and ring engaged, but no rotation, even with another battery hooked up... Then I put 12V straight on the starter terminal (another bike battery connected in parallel)... The starter motor spun freely when not engaged, then when I tried with the starter button in and solenoid engaged, the engine spun over perfectly, which was a relief... So there's still an issue but at least I know things do work. Not sure if it's low voltage or a wiring issue, but at least I can put things back together after logically sorting the problem... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 Great info. Cheers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted October 24, 2023 Author Share Posted October 24, 2023 Suns out guns shitty old bikes out... Winter hiatus over, thought I'd look again at this again, had parked it in despair after things got hard and I gave up. Biggest issue after sorting the starter solenoid was a weird electrical fault where putting the key on lit up all the indicator lamps solid. No idea how this could happen looking at the wiring diagram (all rewired by me) and assumed using jumper leads had fried the electronic flasher. To get at the wiring I had to remove the battery tray and oil lines (again) as the common earth point was a stud on the back of the regulator. Separating things and testing them seemed ok, and reassembling exactly the same seems to have fixed the problem? No idea how, assume a bad earth or something but I'll take it... Next was the clutch, I'd replaced the old twin centre spring setup with a machined multi spring system that was supposed to be an improvement... But the clutch lever was hard as hell to operate, wondered if I'd put the wrong springs in, had chosen heavy duty ones as recommended. Used my clutch tool again to remove the releasing disc... And tried it with 3 springs removed... Which felt about the same, clearly something was amiss with the release ramp system. Looked at it and I'd been assembling the cover with the ramp in the wrong position, rotating it further back fixed things, and finally could feel the clutch moving as it should. The ramp itself is in good condition, only been peened in place once looking at it... Slightly stiffer at the lever but I expected that, and it may settle in with use and the case full of oil. Encouraging though, and I discovered I'm missing a lock washer and thrust bearing that I'll install when I button things up properly. With this case back on I can start fitting pegs, levers, brake parts and exhausts again... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted October 25, 2023 Author Share Posted October 25, 2023 The bottom plate of the chain tensioner had come loose (can see it in pic above with 3 springs) and there's no way of installing it all together without removing the timing chain again, so I crimped it in place with vice grips, fitted new nyloc nuts on the clutch basket, a lock washer under the clutch locknut, a copper thrust washer and new gasket, and fitted the cover... Then adjusted the clutch as per manual, went well, and clutch feels and operates OK. So I loosely fitted pegs and pipes to check clearances etc... Got some issues with the rear pipe and cabling to sort... But main thing is the kick start arm will clear the pipes (by a few mm, pipe will move in a bit from here). Was really worried they'd hit and I'd need a new exhaust system... So getting there, really got no idea how I'll make rearsets work with the kicker, but that's a future problem... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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