Tiger Tamers 1964 Hillman Minx Project

[shizzl]

Is the surge tank in the engine bay?

that’s a pretty cool unit

I was thinking of doing that but had zero room behind the centreline of the wheels/suspension. Was told it couldn’t be forward of the wheel centreline where all the room was. 

[Tiger Tamer]

23 hours ago, shizzl said:

Is the surge tank in the engine bay?

that’s a pretty cool unit

I was thinking of doing that but had zero room behind the centreline of the wheels/suspension. Was told it couldn’t be forward of the wheel centreline where all the room was. 

I was going to put it in the engine bay as that’s where they are designed to go. I was going to put it where the battery was which will be a little forward of the wheels centre line. Was it a cert requirement to be behind the centre line.

[cletus]

correct, for cert, cant be forward of the axle centerline, have tried to get an exemption for one that was only slightly forward and was already done, nope.

 

i m o  its not ideal to put a surge tank in the engine bay anyway due to heat

you have to be wary of things designed for use in america, parts are often designed for ease of use/diy/it bolts on!, not safety or optimal performance

[Tiger Tamer]

2 hours ago, cletus said:

correct, for cert, cant be forward of the axle centerline, have tried to get an exemption for one that was only slightly forward and was already done, nope.

 

i m o  its not ideal to put a surge tank in the engine bay anyway due to heat

you have to be wary of things designed for use in america, parts are often designed for ease of use/diy/it bolts on!, not safety or optimal performance

Thanks for the clarification on that. I am glad I hadn't ordered one yet. Cheers.

[shizzl]

Would’ve sucked to have ordered it, installed it to be wrong.

sorry to foil the plan 

[Tiger Tamer]

3 minutes ago, shizzl said:

Would’ve sucked to have ordered it, installed it to be wrong.

sorry to foil the plan 

Saved the day more like it. Cheers

[shizzl]

I’m glad something I heard was useful to someone.

 

my work here is done haha

[Tiger Tamer]

On 17/06/2024 at 13:52, cletus said:

correct, for cert, cant be forward of the axle centerline, have tried to get an exemption for one that was only slightly forward and was already done, nope.

 

i m o  its not ideal to put a surge tank in the engine bay anyway due to heat

you have to be wary of things designed for use in america, parts are often designed for ease of use/diy/it bolts on!, not safety or optimal performance

I am hoping It is ok to put it here in the boot. I suppose it could be considered in a vulnerable position but it is a tank inside another fairly solid box with a drain tube to go out through the floor and sealed with fuel tank sealer.

To fit it up on the shelf in the boot and then with the diff jacked up to the bump stops I run out of room for the fuel lines.

 

[mjrstar]

The oem ecu for sure will require a speed input  to be happy. I know someone with an f20c in an escort running a stock ecu. There was a guy in the uk maybe that modifies the looms and turns it into something like a 6 or 7 wire install of the factory ecu /loom. He runs a dirveshaft pickup for speed reference which seems to do the trick.

 

I assume the f20c and k20 won't be hugely different as far as wiring configuration goes, well accept for obvious oem orientation..

[Tiger Tamer]

22 hours ago, mjrstar said:

The oem ecu for sure will require a speed input  to be happy. I know someone with an f20c in an escort running a stock ecu. There was a guy in the uk maybe that modifies the looms and turns it into something like a 6 or 7 wire install of the factory ecu /loom. He runs a dirveshaft pickup for speed reference which seems to do the trick.

 

I assume the f20c and k20 won't be hugely different as far as wiring configuration goes, well accept for obvious oem orientation..

This is what they say on the Hondata site which maybe what you are referring to with the speed input. 

Transmission Issues

Any K-series engine can be used with K-Pro in an engine swap.  But the transmission will need to be from an 02-04.  Using an 05-06 transmission will mean that the speedometer will not work, and VTEC will not engage. 

You must use the 02-04 engine harness and oxygen sensor. 

 

 

The Toyota trans must use something similar as there is no cable drive, but if it can be used to talk to the Honda ecu is another story. I haven't had much luck googling what others have done. A lot of transplants are either front wheel drive so they use the Honda trans and the rear wheel drive cars have been a much more modern car. The K power site has wiring looms for rwd set ups for MX5 but they are extremely expensive and it looks like you have to use a different ecu as well.

I will keep looking but I think the info on the Hondata site is probably the best as long as it doesn't only relate to using their ecu's.

 

[BiTurbo228]

Going way back to page 1 (where I'm catching up), it's interesting about the 3mm vs 6mm steel for the engine mounts. I've had that mentioned to me before, but I measured the engine mount brackets on my Jaguar AJ6 and they're 3mm thick. The mounts are quite tucked in so you don't get so much of a lever arm on them trying to twist them apart, and they're quite well triangulated, but to be clear this is a 325kg engine and gearbox package so you'd expect the forces to be really quite large on these.

[Tiger Tamer]

12 hours ago, BiTurbo228 said:

Going way back to page 1 (where I'm catching up), it's interesting about the 3mm vs 6mm steel for the engine mounts. I've had that mentioned to me before, but I measured the engine mount brackets on my Jaguar AJ6 and they're 3mm thick. The mounts are quite tucked in so you don't get so much of a lever arm on them trying to twist them apart, and they're quite well triangulated, but to be clear this is a 325kg engine and gearbox package so you'd expect the forces to be really quite large on these.

Yeah. I think the treason is that factory engine mounts are made from pressed steel into strong shapes with stiffening etc. You can't do that making them yourself. Pretty much anything you do has to be a little heavier gauge steel than what you have removed.

[Tiger Tamer]

I have set up the steering with a Mx5 power steering rack and column which has worked out perfectly for placement. I have a MR2 electric hyd pump to provide the fluid. I even had the rack rebuilt, BUT, the steering is really quite light without the pump probably because I had to set the engine back further than the original Hillman engine. I don't want to have a rebuilt rack depowered as you need to do for cert.

Though, on trade me there is a manual rack for sale for a far more than you would pay for a power rack. I presume a manual rack is quite rare therefore the price.    There seems to be some on the forum that play with mx5's so they might know how rare they are and a fair price for one . $ 580 is pretty steep for a well used part. Cheers.

MX5 NA Manual Steering Rack | Trade Me Motors

[mjrstar]

Sounds spendy, I paid $1000 for an entire car. Admittedly it does have 336,000km on it.

[Tiger Tamer]

Apparently, the manual rack is a slower ratio than the power steering rack, so I will stick with the power rack and perhaps reduce the fluid flow to reduce assist.

I am using a MR2 pump for the rack and the MR2 had assist that was controlled so you had more at slow speed and less at higher speeds. Now that would be nice to have but I am not that smart.

[Tiger Tamer]

I received a reply today from the good folk at Kpower in the states. It seems their looms are still compatible with the K20a. Their reply below.

 

Malcolm,

 

Thank you for your previous purchases for this unique K swap project! 

 

Our RWD engine harness and Miata conversion harness would clean up and simplify your install quite a bit. We offer Hondata Kpro4 and Link G4X. If you are looking to do more advanced things with the car in the future, the Link G4X is the way to go. KPro4 is very good too, I have it in 2 of my personal cars.

 

If you are open to a drive by wire conversion, we have a super nice complete wiring solution. Our Universal electronics package has a nice fuse box to streamline the install, and you can save 8% if you add an iC-7 digital display. You would need to install a digital gas pedal in your car like a floor mounted E46 BMW or 2019 Civic Type R style. You would need to ditch the throttle body you bought from us and go with the Bosch 74mm throttle body we offer and the adapter.

 

Having a drive by wire throttle body has tremendous benefits, you can configure throttle body to throttle pedal ratio in the Haltech software. I like making throttle input from 0 to 50% cut in half, and have a 51-100% 1-1 ratio. This tames down driving the car's partial throttle.

 

From the universal electronics package webpage:

 

 

 

I am happy to answer any questions you may have!

Talk soon,
	T: 847-865-5739 dustin@kpower.industries - kpower.industries 274 Jamie Lane, Wauconda, IL 60084

[Tiger Tamer]

The universal electronics package seems a very nice package, which would be easy to install myself but comes at a price of a bit over $4000.00 US, which will convert to a hole heap more of NZ dollars by the time I got it, and I can feel it would create quite a lot of resistance from the leader of the opposition.

I thought the rwd wiring harness and the Miata dash harness maybe a good compromise. The Hondata ecu would be all I need but you have to send your ecu away to have it converted which could take a couple of months. There is a mx5 dash cluster on trade me I could get that their dash loom should connect to. I could probably make that work quite well and not being digital would fit better. There is a whole car wiring loom for a mx5 as well but I think that would cause more problems than fixes.

Drive by wire throttle sounds good but i am not sure if we are allowed to do that here. 

[Nominal]

1 hour ago, Tiger Tamer said:

 

Drive by wire throttle sounds good but i am not sure if we are allowed to do that here. 

Must be pretty common in modified cars now.

[Tiger Tamer]

Still sticking with the green theme but have gone away from the lime type shades. I saw a Minx painted in a Lime shade and it didn't like it.

Anyway I was down Welly last weekend in Porirua and called into Total bodyshop and browsed their paint samples. This one caught my eye as it's a similar green to the colour it is now but has a lot of metallic to it. I am thinking the roof painted black but with a touch of gold flec metallic added to it so you can only see it up close.

 

[mjrstar]

Na mx5 is cable drive for the speedo, so a bit of a headache if you are running electronic speed signal. I assume maybe nb onwards is electronic?

I'd by a link ecu and 2 Metre loom, and ignore dbw and make it work. 

If you run some sort of eccentric throttle wheel the low percentage driveability will be just fine.