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Goat's 1977 Potato


Goat

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If it's like mine there are neutrals all over the place except when you want it. :)

I snick it into neutral while coasting to a stop, otherwise nearly impossible...

Also put it in 2nd then down to first before taking off. Trying to get into first on it's own is just lots of gktgktgkt noises...

I'm hoping a lot of that is the shocking factory crossover linkage they put on the '75 as it's really a RHS change. Rear sets and RH reverse pattern change should help,  but not expecting miracles. What does help (both clutch feel and gear change) is the correct oil level in primary case...

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16 hours ago, Lord Gruntfuttock said:

If it's like mine there are neutrals all over the place except when you want it. :)

I snick it into neutral while coasting to a stop, otherwise nearly impossible...

Also put it in 2nd then down to first before taking off. Trying to get into first on it's own is just lots of gktgktgkt noises...

I'm hoping a lot of that is the shocking factory crossover linkage they put on the '75 as it's really a RHS change. Rear sets and RH reverse pattern change should help,  but not expecting miracles. What does help (both clutch feel and gear change) is the correct oil level in primary case...

Dose your bike clunk on the down change? I found i could avoid it if when the clutch is pulled in blip the throttle then change down, you sound like an arsehole but it works. 

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The geqrchange itself is super positive on this. A nice caaa-liiiicckk into each gear.

No false neutrals. Only problem is i think the clutch is dragging ever so slightly. Which makes finding neutral almost impossible with engine running. Will do some adjustments see if i can stop it dragging. Tis really nice otherwise.

Scared it will stall at the lights, as you cant really start it straddling the bike...

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did you clean the clutch plates up when you had it apart?  Probably its just the tractor nature of a HD, but every sticking/dragging clutch and hard to get into neutral while running i have had has been sticky black shit on the clutch plates, and the occasional worn cage fingers that i just file flat again and send

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Clutch didn't look bad, cage was ham, wacked it back together as is, but ordered a new cage, which i now have (and have for months). Such a cunt to change though. Will just try adjusting the cable and the throw out mechanism. Hopefully its just something there. Gotta pull the lever all the way to get it to disengage. 

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  • 8 months later...

So my bike projects are all over the show at the moment.
Have just wrapped up goldwing ready for a wof. But no exciting pics for that. Will update that thread once its wofd. Nothing was easy on that bike.

So for now, i've been meaning to fix some oil leaks (major oil leaks) on the potato. After 10 mins it would fill the gulley ontop of the trans with oil. This makes it pretty much unridable. So its pissing out from somewhere. And despite it being all clean. I can't actually pinpoint the leak.

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Its weeping from one of the rocker boxes, and i'm pretty sure its the pushrod tubes leaking. So dug it out of my bedroom and popped it on the hoist.

Can't remove one of the bolts for the rear rocker box with the engine in the frame. This seems very british. So off with its head!

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Can still see hone marks in the bore, which i suppose is good. That would explain the killer compression.

While i've got one off, would be rude to not do the other
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So now i'm gonna give the heads a good clean. I've stripped the rocker boxes so i can fully clean them as they were full of some crud.

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My lifters seem to have quite a bit of slop, not sure if this is standard or not. My 883 doesn't have much play, but those lifters are hydraulic. I pulled a lifter out and its pretty scored. The joys of no oil filter? Do I worry or just put it back together and send it? Seems to run like a champ....

 

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Cool. No idea on lifters sorry. I fitted an external oil filter but you can get a drop in filter for the oil tank.

Should really fix my leaks as well, pretty much stopped riding it as so oily, plus there's a leaky seal between engine/trans that needs fixed. Might pull engine to do things properly...

Let us know what you find regards leaks. I've heard that old school cork pushrod gaskets work better than synthetic, no idea if true or not...

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Ah, interesting. I've got a set of NOS James cork gaskets. And a set of silicone ones. I assumed silicone would be legit... Will biff silicone ones in and report back

Will be reassembling rocker boxes with a thin layer of sealant on the (new) gaskets to help keep it oil tight. 

Im also worried that maybe the base gaskets are leaking as this will explain the hard to see oil leak. Might whip the barrels off and replace base gaskets too while I've got it this far apart.


My tank is a bit of an oddball one, it doesn't have a provision for the intank filter. So running without. I hope lifter were already like this, and haven't been damaged from the 20 odd km I've done since cleaning it up and re-vin.

Though I didn't expose any engine internals asides from the gearbox/primary. Which has its own supply and doesn't go through the engine.
I'll just throw it back together and send it tbh.

 

Do I need to anneal the new copper head gaskets before putting them on? Or just biff em in dry...

 

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Yeah think by '77 they'd stopped using a valve between engine and primary, from memory there's supposed to be like 900mls of oil in primary, but if mine sits it collects a few litres I have to drain before it's ridable, and yeah just noticed you have a different oil tank after I posted. I think I have a stripped rocker cover thread, plus leaky pushrod seals, so oil could be coming from anywhere. Had another look at the XL forum and opinion is divided between cork v rubber. let us know how it goes.

Regards gaskets, I have no idea if they are pre-annealed or not, but it's pretty easy to do so I'd do it as cheap insurance. pretty sure you just heat till they're red and let cool naturally (would pay to check).

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Next part of the saga, the clutch.

Now this clutch was SO fucking heavy. It was ridiculous. You'd cup your hand around the lever and use your whole upper body to pull it back. Great for a wellington commute.
Aswell as being heavy as hell, it also seemed to drag. Making it impossible to get into neutral when the bike was running. Again, excellent, especially when its kickstart only and you have to hop off the bike to kick it.

I ordered new clutch basket, plates, springs, and a release mechanism. Hopefully with a more progressive ramp.

More disassembly:

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Oil was full of clutch material. Keep in mind this bike has done about 20km since it was fully stripped and cleaned. Hmm. Not good.

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Oil was still golden. Just the last 2mm were clutch sludge. No metal though!!

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Clutch plate and spring off. You can see here there are sleeves on each of the studs. This is so you can tighten up the clutch basket against these to get it square. However, these are tight on the steel plates. You cant put the steel plates over them without manhandling the studs into the correct angle. So wondering if that could be causing clutch drag. Once the pressure plate is on though it kinda pulls the studs together and relieves some of the tension. I dont know if this would be an issue, and i don't know how to fix it asides from turning them down?

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Clutch scum:

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This was the michael mouse basket. Welded pegs and all sorts. Thought this might contribute to the dragging, so have a new one to pop in.

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Old single spring, vs stock twin. Hopefully makes it a bit easier:

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The new mechanism looks like it will make a difference. The races for the balls to run in are twice the length of the ones on the bike. So hopefully that makes a more progressive clutch. Will get some snaps of that tonight.
 


 

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I also noticed the clutch assembly wobbles a tiny bit if you spin the whole clutch. Im assuming mainshaft is slightly bent. Which can be explained by the previous damage to the gears and casings. Its obviously had a catastrophic gearbox failure at some point. And the probably didn't replace the mainshaft. 

Will get a new one, but will pop it in next winter. Its obviously been like this for some time. So its probably ok. Everything is agricultural as hell, so can probably handle a slight wobble right??

Another item on the todo list.

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Looks like you could file the holes in the plates for clearance on the spring pillars. Drive is by the splines, yes ?  Also the slots in the outer basket could do with a cleanup file - if you're keeping that basket.

I'd be tempted to try the clutch on each position of the splined shaft. You may find a combination of errors which runs a tad more true. I've straightened more than one gearbox shaft in the past. A press and V blocks - then check between centers with a DTI.

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Had a play last night, seems to bind up nomatter what. I could drill/file the holes in the steel plates bigger.
Though its apparent it has a mixture of pre and post '74 plates in it. Halfway through 74 they revised the design and added spring pillars and made the slots in the steel plates way bigger.

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The spring pillars are all mooshed and super rough, I tried cleaning them up, which helped a bit, but it was still tight to get together. And it made putting the clutch plate on really difficult as the studs were slightly splayed apart. Not good.

Got it all together for a test. Its still Arnie spec difficult, and now it doesn't disengage anyway. (must be bound up)

Also the release bearing is toast.

I'll do an order for new bearing, steel plates and spring spacers. Shame the NZ dollar has tanked against the US in the last couple of weeks :doubt:

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 30/12/2021 at 15:29, Goat said:

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Too legit to quit.

 

Took it for a wee ride around the suburbs. Did some hills. Furthest I've ever ridden it. Seems to leak more oil than a brit bike... (Actually no, can confirm that brit bikes leak the most. They even leave oil pools when they don't have any oil in them!)

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Looks like its the base of the push rod tubes. Should be easy fix i hope. Want to pull the heads anyway to give them a birthday and remove the silver paint

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Atleast i know its pumping oil around. Hah

Pleasure to ride, oodles of torque. Does 100k in 3rd. People treat you differently than they do on my triumph. hah. Feel like a crim.


Clutch is like bench pressing 2000lbs with your fist. May need to look into making that a bit softer (and stop it from dragging so i can actually select neutral without stopping the engine).

All in all, its great (for what it is), it is so unrefined compared to 70s jap bikes. But it sounds good, looks good and goes good.  Plus all legal beagle now. One down 9 to go.

Will ride it like this for the next year or two while i try get some more bikes on the road. Then this will go under the knife to build the dream.

Its amazing it dose 100 on 3rd, probably the bigger diameter rear wheel? My 73 will hardly do 100 in top.

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