Demand for RWD Mitsi V6 6A10, 11, 12 and 13 engines

[R100]

Searching the net i have found alot of people wanting to fit the the 6a series V6 engines into RWD mitsis etc. Anyone on here had any experience with these engines or want to fit them to there cars. Mitsi doesnt seem to have many if any options when doing RWD conversions into oldschool rwd cars. If theres a bit of interest i will get a bellhousing made up and look at getting them cast.

[bubblegoose]

i think 6g's are a slightly easier option

aka, fuels mission

[fuel]

haha you only just decided to do this now??

a few people have done the 6A12 RWD conversion, the 6A series shares the same common bellhousing pattern as the 4cyl engines except for the starter motor position being in a different spot, however that's easily located. As the 6A series was never mounted north/south to begin with there's issues with the RWD mounts onto the block as there's no specific holes drilled and tapped for them on the block itself, also the thermostat housing and water pipes off the back of the heads would need to be relocated. other than that the inlet manifold should be able to spin around alright.

The 6G series was mounted north/south (ie Pajero, Triton, L200, Delica L400) so at least there's RWD mounts, RWD water pump + water pipe/thermostat housing and manifold setups out there for them.

If you're wanting to do a 6G72 -> R154 bellhousing I would be keen, but at this stage I'm looking to use a Pajero bellhousing with adapter plate to R154 box.

I like the 6A series of engine, they have many pros over the 6G being a four bolt mains block, more rigid with closed valley, more compact but they have cons over the 6G such as weak rods, lack of aftermarket support etc.

[R100]

I had actually decided to do this about 8 years ago, bought myself a whole mitsi eterna ? (cant remember now) to remove the engine and sort out a RWD bellhousing. But gave up on the idea and have only just thought about doing it again. Your correct on the issue of no real place to mount the engine mounts, could possibly incorperate the mounts into the sump. I have seen this done befor with mazda 20b engines. I thick 8mm flange is made up for the sump to be welded too. the flange has "wings" comming off it to bolt the mounts too. Of coarse this is just one idea. So what gearbox has been used successfully behind the 6a engines ?

[fuel]

there was an L200 ute on trademe with a twin turbo 6A12 fitted, but I am unsure what gearbox they would have used. Probably the standard L200 box with a modified bellhousing or even an adapter plate. The majority of the bellhousing bolts would have mated up though, it's just the starter position on the 4cyl is placed right where one of the cylinder banks is so needs to be moved down beside the sump where the starter is on the V6.

The 6A10 would be a cool engine to make RWD in under 1600cc class vehicles, but the weight of the engine would be a disadvantage to the 4cyl counterparts. No one would bother using a 6A11, but a 6A13TT would be awesome made RWD - the sump flange pattern between the 6A12 and 6A13 is different. You could attach the mounts to where the air con pump bolts onto on one side easy, but on the other side there's not alot of places to attach a mount to.

[forced]

Ideally you'd want to leave the mounts where they are. They're there for a reason and until you work out that reason you're not winning.

Why do V8 blocks crack through the middle? Why do serious racers use end plates to mount them?

Steve

[Spencer]

Why do you keep posting?

[fuel]

I don't think a 6A series would ever produce enough torque to crack a block - the air con compressor mountings are quite substantial and you wouldn't break them off or crack that block in that region, it's the other side which has bugger all to attach to.

[forced]

Why do you keep posting?

Just to wind up all the dumbarses on here like yourself.

It's one of Newtons laws of physics, to every action there's a reaction, or something like that.So the action is the output torque on the driveshaft, the reaction is the engine mounts. Move them and you stress everything out possibly to the point of failure. It makes far more sense to leave them in the same place on the block and move everything else to suit.

Well why bother doing something if it's only half arsed?

Steve

[Testament]

Well why bother doing something if it's only half arsed?

Steve

Because it still works/it may be easier/cheaper/just to piss you off

sure just because stuff is done one way doesn't make it right - by conversely just because something is not "ultimate" doesn't make it unworthy of doing.

R100 - any idea on costs of producing a pattern for casting some bellhousings? I'm getting some pump impellers cast for a job at work and that was about $10k for the pattern, but much more complex and cast in 410 stainless steel. I would imagine a bellshouing in aluminium will be alot cheaper.

[R100]

Im not sure on the demand for cast alloy bell housings as to whether its worthwhile doing. I can however get steel bell housings made in quantities of 5 for approx $450 each. All bell housings can be made from 4mm or 6mm steel and are sold machined ready to bolt on. It’s just a matter of choosing a suitable box. Im guessing the W series Toyota boxes would be best, or maybe the Mazda RX7 boxes? Least there are plenty of aftermarket clutch kits available. If you chose the series 4 and 5 Mazda RX7 box the factory starter location allows the starter to be bolted in from the gearbox side, maybe good maybe not?

Another idea is fabricating an adapter plate to suit? This way the factory Mitsubishi starter can be re-used and mounted back into the original location (Below RHS cylinder bank)

I need to do some more research into these motors (6A series) in regards to bell housing variants.

Did the 6A engine ever come out RWD even in auto form or 4WD?

Best thing is for me to buy an engine and trans and start thinking of ideas. I can get my hands on one no problems. I may have to cut the bolt flange out of the FWD box and the rear off a W series Toyota box and weld them together, clean up the joins to make a working usable bell housing. Once tested I can use it as a basis a possible die for casting.

Lots of options out there.

Alloy adapter plate

Steel bell housing

Cast alloy bell housing.

Each have there advantages and disadvantages

[Jase]

why not cast a mitsi to yota bell,

graham berry dellow etc could do it but would charge hard

i think steve is secretly sexychevette spamming it up makes me lol

what a fucktard the oracle of the internet quote sheepers

[R100]

Ok well ive linned up a 6A10 DOHC engine. Only a 1600 but it comes with all the bells and whistles, starter alt etc. Will also come with factory wiring and ECU

I have a couple of ideas at present.

1. Make an adapter plate to allow a Toyota bellhousing with W series flange to bolt up

Bellhousing could be a hilux type as there fairly easy to come by. (12R , 18R , 22R , Y , 2Y , 3Y 4Y ) Diesel (L , 2L, 3L ,5L ) are the common types of hilux 2WD engines.

Or

2. Cut the rear of a toyota W series bellhousing and the front of a 6A bellhousing (FWD Box) and weld the 2 together to form the basis of a die to make a cast mold.

Both the above ideas will allow placement of the factory mitsi starter motor.

I also dont thing the mounting of the block will be too much of a problem.

On one side you can use the air conditioning bracket mounting holes which consist of 4 x 8mm threaded holes.

The other side also has mounting holes which consist of 3x 8mm threaded holes and 1x 6mm mounting hole that can be drilled and tapped to 8mm.

This i believe is more than suffient.

The 6A10 i am planning on getting produces 138HP at 7000 rpm. Not bad for a 1600cc

Best of all ill probly trial fit it in my Chevette.

[R100]

Some info from Wikipedia regarding the mitsi V6 engines.

6A10

Displacement — 1597 cc

Bore — 73.0 mm

Stroke — 63.6 mm

DOHC

Engine type — V type 6 cylinder DOHC 24 valve

Compression ratio — 10.0:1

Fuel system — ECI multi

Peak power — 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp) at 7000 rpm

Peak torque — 147 N·m (108 lb·ft) at 4500 rpm

[edit] Applications

1992–94 Mitsubishi Mirage

1992–98 Mitsubishi Lancer

6A11

Displacement — 1829 cc

Bore — 75.0 mm

Stroke — 69.0 mm

SOHC

Engine type — V type 6 cylinder SOHC 24 valve

Compression ratio — 9.5:1

Fuel system — ECI multi

Peak power — 100 kW (136 PS; 134 hp) at 6000 rpm

Peak torque — 167 N·m (123 lb·ft) at 4500 rpm

Applications

1992–96 Mitsubishi Galant/Eterna/Emeraude

1995–98 Mitsubishi Mirage

6A12

Displacement — 1998 cc

Bore — 78.4 mm

Stroke — 69.0 mm

SOHC

Engine type — V type 6 cylinder SOHC 24 valve

Compression ratio — 9.5:1, 10.0:1 , 10.4:1

Fuel system — ECI multi

Peak power — 107–110 kW (145–150 PS; 143–148 hp) at 6000–6750 rpm

Peak torque — 179–181 N·m (132–133 lb·ft) at 4000–4500 rpm

Applications

1992–96 Mitsubishi Galant/Eterna/Emeraude

1992–94 Mitsubishi Diamante

DOHC & sports ECU

Engine type — V type 6 cylinder DOHC 24 valve

Compression ratio — 10.0:1

Fuel system — ECI multi

Peak power (1994-1996) — 127–132 kW (173–179 PS; 170–177 hp) at 7000 rpm

Peak torque — 191 N·m (141 lb·ft) at 4000 rpm

Applications

1994–2002 Mitsubishi FTO

1992–96 Mitsubishi Galant/Eterna/Emeraude

1999-Present Proton Perdana

2005-2009 Proton Waja Chancellor

MIVEC

Engine type — V type 6 cylinder DOHC 24 valve MIVEC

Compression ratio — 10.0:1

Fuel system — ECI multi

Peak power — 147 kW (200 PS; 197 hp) at 7500 rpm

Peak torque — 200 N·m (148 lb·ft) at 6500 rpm

Applications

1994–2002 Mitsubishi FTO

1993–1995 Mitsubishi Galant

1999–2002 Mitsubishi Galant

DOHC twin turbo

Engine type — V type 6 cylinder DOHC 24 valve

Compression ratio — 8.5:1

Fuel system — ECI multi

Peak power — 177 kW (241 PS; 237 hp) at 6000 rpm

Peak torque — 309 N·m (228 lb·ft) at 4000 rpm

Applications

1992–96 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4

1992–96 Mitsubishi Eterna XX-4/GT

6A13

Displacement — 2498 cc

Bore — 81.0 mm

Stroke — 80.8 mm

SOHC

Engine type — V type 6 cylinder SOHC 24 valve

Compression ratio — 9.0, 9.5:1

Fuel system — ECI multi

Peak power — 120–129 kW (163–175 PS; 161–173 hp) at 5750 rpm

Peak torque — 223–230 N·m (164–170 lb·ft) at 4500 rpm

Applications

1996–2003 Mitsubishi Galant

2002 Mitsubishi Diamante

DOHC twin turbo

Engine type — V type 6 cylinder DOHC 24 valve

Compression ratio — 8.5:1

Fuel system — ECI multi

Peak power — 206 kW (280 PS; 276 hp) at 5500 rpm

Peak torque — 363 N·m (268 lb·ft) at 4000 rpm

Applications

1996–2003 Mitsubishi Galant/Legnum VR-4

6A12 N/A And Twin turbo version

[fuel]

unless you're restricted to a 1600cc class for some reason, I wouldn't bother with a 6A10 1600cc engine, they are very very peaky and not any more powerful than the 4cyl non-MIVEC 4G92, and the MIVEC 4G92 would leave it for dead and weigh 2/3rds the weight. You may as well fit a 6A12 DOHC or a 6A12 MIVEC which is 170-180hp or 200hp and it's the same weight and physical size as the 6A10 1600cc. I would say the 6A13TT is probably the only real engine worth making RWD out of the lot - both the 6G72 MIVEC and the 6G72 twin turbo can be made RWD without custom mounts, only weighs marginally more and is only slightly physically bigger in size but has so much more potential for power and reliability if you hope to get more than 300-350hp out of it, which is where a 6A will start breaking rods.

So in short, explore using a 6G7x series rather than 6A1x and I'll be a customer for a bellhousing no doubt.

[forced]

The bellhousing is the least of your worries, The whole cooling system has to be modded so that it's similar to a pajero, otherwise you'll end up with an air lock in the front (highest point)and it will cook, Unless you've studied a pajero cooling system , then you won't know.

The idea of a flange sitting between the sump and the block is a good idea depending on the motor. I know a guy who modded a stockcar that way , I think it was a ford straight 6 , it was done for both strength, reliability and ease of pulling the motor. He built a thick flange to go between the sump and block, That had pipes welded to it which you slip the engine mount bolts into. Tricky though with a Mitsi as you've got the front & rear curved bits for the crank.

Steve

[Mike-e]

Jack the back of the car up when you bleed it then.

Mike

[fuel]

The bellhousing is the least of your worries, The whole cooling system has to be modded so that it's similar to a pajero, otherwise you'll end up with an air lock in the front (highest point)and it will cook, Unless you've studied a pajero cooling system , then you won't know.

The idea of a flange sitting between the sump and the block is a good idea depending on the motor. I know a guy who modded a stockcar that way , I think it was a ford straight 6 , it was done for both strength, reliability and ease of pulling the motor. He built a thick flange to go between the sump and block, That had pipes welded to it which you slip the engine mount bolts into. Tricky though with a Mitsi as you've got the front & rear curved bits for the crank.

Steve

Not on the 6A1x series, the block is deeper than a 6G7x and the sump is completely flat.

[R100]

Didnt end up buying the 6A10 engine etc i had lined up as im reasonably impatient and went to the engine importers today and bought a fresh imported DOHC 6A10 engine.

I chose the 1600 engine as it was cheaper than the 6a11, 12 and 13s

Its only a basis for my gearbox adaption so im really only interested in the block at present.

The 6Ax engines look more compact than the 6G7x this is why ive chosen them.

The idea to me is find a small compact engine to fit into oldschool engine bays. I also think they would be very awsum on the back of a VW Beetle.

I realise i will have other issues such as cooling system and ECU wiring loom, as well as engine mounts etc.

Will tackle each problem as i get to it.

[fuel]

The 6A10 is the cheapest?? where the heck are you looking? I picked up two complete 6A12 DOHC engines for less than $200 each, and was given a near complete 6A12TT for free. Buying from an engine importer couldn't have been cheap surely?

I can assure you the 6G71, 6G72 and 6G73 are only marginally larger in dimensions, the width of the engines are the same but the total length is about 30mm longer and the height is perhaps 10mm higher. The 6G74 and 6G75 have taller block deck heights so are wider and taller but the length will be the same.

I just can't help but feel you didn't take into account any information before purchasing the engine.