Austin / Morris 1100 Owners. need your weirdos advice about hub play

[Seedy Al]

Hey Guys

So a bit of history about my problem.

basicly for a while there has been a bit of play in the front wheels of Mourning Cupcakes Austin 1100.

Recentlyish I replaced the front wheel bearings, pretty much assuming that would remove any play. However, although it did a lovely job on the drivers side, the passenger still has a little bit to much play in it for my liking.

But why? and before you throw words around like ball joint play etc, I am more than certain its in the hub..... So yeah, what are my options.....

I pulled the hub off this evening to have a quick look. thoughts were to either try finding a shim to push the inner races closer together, as I have noticed the end of outer hub part that the disc etc bolts onto is a bit warn, like maybe a bearing has seized at some point in its life.......

But yeah, any ideas or thoughts would be amazing. The bearings I fitted were the types that have the spacers incorporated into the bearings, as opposed to having a separate spacer inbetween the bearings.......

Cool.

Thanks guys.

[GuyWithAviators]

I don't know much about the hubs etc but do you have a workshop manual? I'm happy to scan the relevant section in my Haynes book in you want

[Seedy Al]

Yeah I have a Gregory's manual here for it

Have studied it a few times, but hasn't shown me anything I didn't already know haha.

Might try pulling out one of the bearings and running the spacer part over the linisher, tighten up the play that way, well I assume it should, as long as the wheel hub isn't bottoming out on the swivel hub.

Sounds confusing right!

[GuyWithAviators]

Yeah sounds like a good idea.

British cars aye haha.

[Nominal]

Maybe replace the ball bearings and spacers with taper roller bearings? That's what I've done on my Morris Minor.

[KKtrips]

How does the new bearing cup size compar to the original?

ie: the cup isn't sitting too far in and needs a spacer behind it?

Something is triggering in my brain about this from when I did mine.

[KKtrips]

Google told me this - http://members.tripod.com/austin_america/id63.html

Last paragraph or two.

 

Excessive Front Bearing Play:

If you have a car with quite a bit of play in the front wheel bearings, it may not be the front bearings at all!

Jack up the front wheels and grab them with your hands at the 6 & 12 O'clock positions. Try rocking the wheel in and out.  If you feel any play at all, look on the back side of the wheel and see if it's coming from the upper and lower ball joints.

Do the same test by grabbing the wheel at 3 & 9 O'clock.  If you get any play, check the steering rack track rod end and the rack bushing (if the passenger side does have play).

Finally, do the same test with your hands in the 2 & 8 O'clock positions.  Again, if you feel play, look on the back side and see if it's suspension related.

Here's what I came across recently while rebuilding the front end in a 1969 America:

• There was a ton of play in the right (passenger side) front wheel.  No matter where I put my hands, there was play....and a lot of it!
• The steering rack bushing was blown out....fixed it.
• The track rod end was bad....replaced it.
• The upper and lower ball joints were wiped out....rebuilt them.

Still, I had a ton of play in the wheel, but now it was much less and it was narrowed down to where I could watch the CV joint wobble in the bearings as I rocked the wheel.  So, eventhough the wheel bearings were nice and quiet, I replaced them.  Guess what?  No change in play!

I started thinking about how the front wheel bearings are preloaded.  Basically, the axle nut is torqed to 150ft/lbs and this crushes the inner flange on the hub that the wheel bolts to against the inner race of the outer bearing.  The flange of the CV joint is curshed against the inner race of the inner bearing.  Finally, this crush action crushes the inner faces of the inner bearings against each other and pulls the bearings against the outer races.  Pretty straight forward.....or so I thought.

Here's what I tried in an attempt to fix the problem:

• My initial thought was that I had a warn hub flange.  I replaced the flange....no change in play!
• Okay, maybe the flange on the CV joint is bad. I replaced the CV joint....no change!
• Cone shape washer bad?  Replaced....no change!

I finally decided the only thing it could be was the big hub assembly that the bearings are driven in to.  The hub has a shoulder machined inside to catch the outer bearing races and hold them, while the inner races are free to be crushed into each other a certain amount.  I thought, "What if that shoulder was machined to narrow, so the bearings are too close together and that keeps the inner races from being able to move into each other enough to properly preload the bearings.

Well, sure enough.  I took out the outer bearing and had a machine shop mill .005" off the inner face of the inner race.  That made quite a bit of difference but there was still some play.  I removed the bearing a second time and had an addition .005" taken off. 

Perfection (but let me tell you how sick I was of taking that front assembly apart)!

[Seedy Al]

That pretty much sums up my thoughts completely! So yesh. Will remove a bearing and linish off a few tho on the inner bearing spacer bit. Should solve my issues.

[Seedy Al]

Thanks kk

[bathcollector]

Been waiting for our resident BMC guy to come in to work. He tells me the original bearing may have been spinning so hub wear ? He also suggested shimming but should be easy enough to get a good one ?