m0ss4yy Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 anyone have any ideas on where i can get shocks made up or a better way of doing it? Call Chris at 'Suspention tech' 0272145325 He is the best shock guy in town and will help you get the setup you need tho he would wantyou to go for bilstens as they the best. Sweet, does he do leaf springs aswell? or coils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 yea but wats the problem with cutting them and captivating them??basically the same as having kings in there really No it isnt. If you look at your spring you will see that the top coils are differant and flatten off making them sit in the top cup and locate propely. Cutting them means they dont do this anymore. Gaz If you do happen to have a spring or car that this occurs on you can have the spring tapered to seat correctly. Take them to a spring shop and they will heat the end, taper it down and then put the springs in an oven to temper them and get strength back in, as heating parts of springs weakens them. It will still work out much cheaper than aftermarkets or "custom" springs and you will know what you are getting, unlike buying other springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0ss4yy Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 Yeah but if you are going lower, a lot of the time u need custom springs cause u have to have them stiffer than factory to prevent bottoming out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Yeah but if you are going lower, a lot of the time u need custom springs cause u have to have them stiffer than factory to prevent bottoming out Exactly right, and that is the reason why it is not a good idea to compress springs. Spring rate is dependant on 2 things. Spring steel diameter (the diameter of the actual steel, not of the spring winding diameter) and the number of windings in total. This means that if 2 springs are the same height and made of the same steel diameter, yet one has 2 windings and one has 3, the one with 2 will be stiffer. That is why, when you cut springs they offer a firmer spring rate. Granted sometimes a spring rate may be required that is higher than what you can achieve by cutting the springs (ie, it will still bottom out on the bump stop even with good shocks) so to get around this you could look at springs with the same coil diameter, but of a thicker steel diameter to achieve the desired spring rate. In my Chevette I've done this by using Torana superlow front springs (which have been cut), as they are a higher spring rate due to being from a larger car. I am also using Honda springs in the rear, which have been cut and the ends tapered down so that they sit nicely in the spring well. The car handles very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0ss4yy Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 Im looking at getting some springs made, low but high spring rate, and then going to a good shock shop, and getting them to find me an insert thats already short enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 That will be a good solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0ss4yy Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 going to be costly though.. have to get the leafs reset and new centre bolts with an extra leaf added.. then 2" blocks aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twosmoke Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Sorry for a slight thread hijack, but in relation to running shorter (but captive) springs without shorter shocks, will this not effect the "preload" effect of running a spring longer than the shock? Would this adversely effect handling? What is the ideal amount of "preload"? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0ss4yy Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 You wont be able to have a shock much longer than a spring and have it still captive.. 30 or so mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblegoose Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Sorry for a slight thread hijack, but in relation to running shorter (but captive) springs without shorter shocks, will this not effect the "preload" effect of running a spring longer than the shock?Would this adversely effect handling? What is the ideal amount of "preload"? Cheers no, you will notice that when you take your car off a jack the suspension compresses, this makes any preload you had non existant the preload you are talking about is just there to keep the spring captive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 The good old lowering a hunter. yes it can all be done. Anyway you will get a bit tired looking for bumpstops on a hunter setup they don't exist. overtravel will end in the strut crashing into the top of the tower. The tube that houses the shock, normaly called the tower can be removed from the hub. with a lot of half inch exstanshions or if you weld up a crafty exstenshion you can get at the 7/16" cap nut at the botten and un do it. There is too places you can shorten and that 1. above the bottem spring platform,( shorning this will allow a desent amount of travel when a shorter spring is put in, in conjuntion with a shorter shock). 2. below the spring platform. ( if your running standard radis tires you can reduce this by 1 3/4" with out the spring fowling on the tire.) To get a (1 3/4") drop just remove a (1 3/4") section out of the bottem of the tube and weld the base back on. reuse the old spring and will need new shocks. You can then get another (2") out of obtaining lower springs. The good old MK2 cortina (low) kingspring is the deal to get this sorted. you will need to replace the lower spring platform to a cortina type depending on what strut you have as there is too different widths of hunter springs. check the new spring fits on you platform before you buy them. you will still need replacments shocks to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 if you wont to drop more than 2" out of the spring, say 3" then you would be best removing a 3 3/4" section out of the bottem of the tube and rewelding the base back on and raising the lower spring platform by 2". shocks are easy as the hunter uses a standard 2" tube so there is lists and lists of shocks that will fit at all different hights and travel and load rates. If the shock you chose is say 5mm of 10mm shorter than you tube you will just need to throw a packer down the tube before you put the shock in to take up the slack. If you dont pack it and the shock is allowed to hammer in the tower it wont take long to rip the tower of the hub and that isn't pritty. The hunter normaly has neutel camber and will gain some masive positive camber when you start lowering it. dop it 2" and you will start chewing out tires very quickly ( will handle well ) you will have to start looking at camber adjusters. this can be done in the swing arm and at the top of the stut tower. a combination is the best. not to menshion you will have to attend to the sway bar when it's lowered. they can bind and upset you handleing dramaticly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 This thread lols me Also sorry if I go over stuff that has been covered. Have started drinking in preparation. Cutting springs increases the spring rate because you have less coils while the actual "Springability" of the metal stays the same. Therefor is spread over less material = higher spring rate. Springs get harder as you cut them (Not cut them in half - thats stupid). I worked for a motorcycle man who does "Performance upgrades" to stock MX bike suspension. One of the things we did was cut springs to achieve a higher spring rate. Sure it was rangi, but for the people who didn't want to buy new springs it was worth it. Now, the idea of shortening shocks is thrown round often but there are things that people never make clear. There is a difference between shortening the shock shaft, shortening the shock "base" (you would never ever even contemplate this) and shortening the strut case. Shock shaft = the shiny bit that sticks out from the shock absorber and attaches to your top hat. This is often shortened just to keep a cut spring captive. I will call the rest of the shock (black part usually that houses the guts of the shock) the "base". Lets take me as an example... Im going through this exact procedure at the moment. I want my car slammed very hard. I get my strut cases (the outer metal shock housing) shortened around say 50mm+. This involves cutting 50mm out of the strut housing and welding it back together to make it 50mm shorter. What this achieves is the ability to go super low in ride height but enables you to still have suspension travel at these super low settings. You know how you often see cars round town real low but bouncing? They are on the bump stops. Shortening the strut case enables you to go that low but not bounce on the bump stops. Yay. But now oh o... The factory shock absorbers no longer fit the strut casings because the shock absorber "base" is 50 mm too long to fit in the new casing that is 50mm too short... I buy a different new shorter shock absorber. For me this involves buying a ae92 corolla shock insert that is 50mm shorter than my corona factory one and also stiffer. Win. You should find the length of the shorter shock you are going to use before you cut the case. This means your engineer wont have to make a spacer. However making a spacer if not a huge deal. Now I have a Strut case and a strut "base" that fits together perfectly. Im not going to read the rest of your thread except the first question you posted and hopefully clear everything up. The way you want to do it suggests just building coilovers because you would probably need a cert anyway. You are never going to get it to handle properly with factory cut springs. But they do work if you just want slightly more slam. If you want real slam with factory spec components you're dreaming. I cant stress enough that doing stuff properly is teh best way. Save up... get it done properly. This is what iv done and am doing. It involves a bit of time from an engineer and some coilover springs + nuts. You could buy a spring and nut kit from trade me and an engineer can make it work on your struts. What said engineer will do is either create a threaded sleeve the same diameter as your strut case and weld it on, or make a mount for alloy sleeves that you buy off trade me. A pair of new coilover springs at a ridiculously hard spring rate cost me $170. Nuts cost me $20 (Thanks bubblegoose <3). You could get custom springs made for the front at probably the same price as just purchasing some coilover springs from a place like mag and turbo. Getting custom springs made is another option and may allow you to roll with no cert. Try telling the cop that though etc. However custom springs would still require the process of shortening the strut case and purchasing a new shock like I have stated above. Its kind of a toss up over how legitimate you want to do it. But like always the expensive option will always be the best. Im going to get my corona certed and get everything legal because the cops in palmy are assholes. PM me bro if you have any questions. -Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0ss4yy Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Back to square one with no clue exactly how to go about lowering. My best idea at the minute is getting my standard springs stiffened and lowered, and shortening the shock to avoid bump stop, and shortening the shocks (or new short ones) Anybody have spare Hunter struts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0ss4yy Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Dont wanna hit bump stops all the time so I gotta do it good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Jesus fucking christ. Goto your local shop and ask if they have king springs to suit. Then buy then install. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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