Jeffs_Emporium Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 i have an 81 mitsi sapporo which i just pulled an engine out of because of shagged big end i have no idea what it is, it has a timing chain and no engine number stamps anywhere, i have also bought a 1979 l200 ute with a 4g63 with timing belt when trying to put the 4g63 into the sapporo the bolts on the block are closer together and the overall size of the sandwhich plate is smaller in size in comparison with the sapporo gearbox, i would use the 4speed ute gearbox but its collum change. what engine do i need, does my gearbox come from the sapporo or is it meant to be something else and can i some how mount the 4g63 ute engine to the sapporo gearbox? ute 4g63 look at top two bolts unknown 4g63 engine?? unknown engine look at top two gearbox bolts sapporo gearbox top bolts wider apart same as unknown engine ute gearbox notice how it has both wide and narrow block wholes on top and hers what the old girl looks like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 hah so you got that one off trademe. that timing chain "unknown" engine is a Astron series motor, could be a 4G51 1850cc (not likely), 4G52 2000c or if you're lucky a 4G54 2600cc. wideblock/narrowblock refers to the spacing of the bottom dowels - not the spacing of the top two bellhousing bolts. Weird that the sapporo has a timing chain engine in it - it's meant to have a 4G63 according to www.carjam.co.nz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Yeah Phil has it all. As a sidenote, a good way of telling if it's Astron or Sirius series is by the cam cover. If it's indented from the side like that one, it means it's Astron, which means it's one of the engines fuel listed. Find another gearbox or rebuild the Astron. I'd reccomend finding a gearbox and using the 4G63 however, it's generally considered a better engine. Also, keep tabs on your typing. You typed "4G64" a couple times which is another engine altogether and it got confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Eliot Saturn series chain drive (4G32 etc) looks really similar to an Astron series too Main difference how to spot the difference is the oil filter location - Astron is on the block while Saturn and Sirius is off the oil pump housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffs_Emporium Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 ok thanks guys,yea it has had a different engine fitted can tell by choke cable not hookes up and stuff like that so is my 4g63 wide or narrowblock and what do i neeed to find a gearbox from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 your 4G63 is narrowblock - only turbo RWD blocks are wideblock. You'll need a gearbox from a RWD Sigma 2L, or 5 speed floor change box from an L200 2L (1980 onwards) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSM Garage Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ahhh, I had my eyes on that car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Yeah, sorry, the Saturn series is like that too. Should have said, my celeste had a 4G32 in it after all. Also, according to caboon, there are apparently non-turbo blocks that are wide or so he says. I've never seen one That Sapporo looks like it has mean potential Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 yeah there are a few 4G54 wideblocks (ie the Starion turbo), and aussie assembled Scorpion and Sigma sedan automatic 4G54s. Some later model 2.4 blocks are wideblock too - there's even a factory wideblock L300 4G64 SOHC16V with 7 bolt crank - perfect donor to put a DOHC head on and put into a Starion (or EX Lancer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sorry, I meant 4G63. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I'm pretty sure there are no wideblock non turbo 4G63s. I haven't come across one yet anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSM Garage Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Do you know what the purpose or reason behind the wideblocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 one would assume it was to accommodate a larger flywheel/clutch combo so they had a bigger bellhousing to suit - but the Starion wideblock has a 215mm clutch while the VR-4/evo narrowblock has a 225mm clutch but a stepped flywheel instead, so not sure what's going on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffs_Emporium Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 yea i think it was factory turbo cz it has discs allround and independent rear end an has gsr on rego slip but turbo engines are soooo hard to find and mostly ragged, i think its got a bit of potential a needs quite a lot of work though, so is the only difference between this and fuels car the twin headlights and the turbo engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 So as he's doing and twin cam turbo it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ke36 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I'm pretty sure there are no wideblock non turbo 4G63s. I haven't come across one yet anyway. the guys on zerog talk about the ute autos being wideblock dunno if we ever got them here though there's even a factory wideblock L300 4G64 SOHC16V with 7 bolt crank - perfect donor to put a DOHC head on and put into a Starion (or EX Lancer). struggle to get a gbox to work with a 7bolt clutch setup tho maybe a billhousing from the states accomodates the 7 bolt flywheels but not sure how the hell do they fit 16v in a single cam head too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I'm pretty sure there are no wideblock non turbo 4G63s. I haven't come across one yet anyway. the guys on zerog talk about the ute autos being wideblock dunno if we ever got them here though I'm pretty sure their utes got the 4G54 instead of the 4G63.. main reason their Starion never had the 4G63 - 2L was seen to be 'too small' [/quote=Ke36] there's even a factory wideblock L300 4G64 SOHC16V with 7 bolt crank - perfect donor to put a DOHC head on and put into a Starion (or EX Lancer). struggle to get a gbox to work with a 7bolt clutch setup tho maybe a billhousing from the states accomodates the 7 bolt flywheels but not sure Could use the L300 bellhousing if it seperates from the gearbox. how the hell do they fit 16v in a single cam head too Easy - Honda and many other manufacturers have been doing it for decades. No different to 8V really - you have the cam usually centred somewhat in the cylinder head and rocker arms going to the valves.. instead of 8 arms there's 16 arms - in the case of the 4Gx SOHC16V there are three cam lobes for each cylinder - two for individual rocker arms for the inlet and one for the exhaust which has a large arm which splits into two for each valve, like this (4G93 SOHC shown, but almost identical): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I'm pretty sure there are no wideblock non turbo 4G63s. I haven't come across one yet anyway. the guys on zerog talk about the ute autos being wideblock dunno if we ever got them here though I'm pretty sure their utes got the 4G54 instead of the 4G63.. main reason their Starion never had the 4G63 - 2L was seen to be 'too small' there's even a factory wideblock L300 4G64 SOHC16V with 7 bolt crank - perfect donor to put a DOHC head on and put into a Starion (or EX Lancer). struggle to get a gbox to work with a 7bolt clutch setup tho maybe a billhousing from the states accomodates the 7 bolt flywheels but not sure Could use the L300 bellhousing if it seperates from the gearbox. how the hell do they fit 16v in a single cam head too Easy - Honda and many other manufacturers have been doing it for decades. No different to 8V really - you have the cam usually centred somewhat in the cylinder head and rocker arms going to the valves.. instead of 8 arms there's 16 arms - in the case of the 4Gx SOHC16V there are three cam lobes for each cylinder - two for individual rocker arms for the inlet and one for the exhaust which has a large arm which splits into two for each valve, like this (4G93 SOHC shown, but almost identical): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 You're right about the utes. Just like the B2600's getting the 54 over there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ke36 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 cheers fuel never seen a single cam head like that, was wondering how they would get enough lobes on the cam l300 gearbox is onepeice bellhousing and gears with the shifter housing like the km132 still even in the 7 bolts i believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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