Popular Post Roman Posted July 6, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 6, 2023 Alright sooooo. It's been a case of: tack pipes. test fit. cut pipes back off. test fit. tack pipes again. scratch head. And so on, for about 30 iterations until I've run out of bends and argon. However I've now got something that clears everything. Doing some checks on lengths, they're within about 40mm of each other. Which is about 5% variation - happy with that. However, a few problems. Firstly, I've chopped and changed everything so much that it's a bit of a mess. Partially due to being short on patience from redoing everything a lot, and not having totally flush surfaces. So welds turned out more pooey than needed. I should invest in a linisher I think. Secondly, This is all great that everything's past the steering column, and 10+ mm clearance to everything. However everything is on some tricky angles to try stuff into a collector. I havent made a collector, because it seems hard. Or I need to buy some. The only purchasable collectors that fit my budget look like baked bean tins that have been stood on. So I will try make something instead. As I think what I really need to do. Is to start the pipes from the collector, then work back towards the head from there. Welding a collector is tricky, because you end up with a bit in the middle that you cant reach to weld when it's together. One way is to cluster the pipes together tight. Then weld a little triangle piece in the middle before it goes together, on the collector and 3 pipes. Then weld the remaining perimeter to finish it. (Idea stolen from @kpr - thank you) So hopefully something like this. To choose where to slice the bottom part, I've drawn a circle the size of a 2" pipe, then just cut it shorter till it roughly matches this. I could go bigger or smaller though I guess? Currently has inside area equivilent to a 1.75" circle. My plan is to print some cutting templates like this. If I had a band saw I'd do it a little differently so the outsides are flat so it sits on the right angle on the table. Actually - yeah might do this and see if I can use bandsaw at dads. Assuming it's happy cutting stainless. Fingers crossed it works out alright. Something else to think about. As per oldschool.co.ng project tradition, 3" exhaust pipe. However - I've got two banks that need to eventually merge into a single 3" pipe. I'm not sure if there's any useful tuned stuff happening in the 2-1 part of a 6-2-1 setup. If I was trying to keep the "secondary" pipes to half the cross sectional area of a 3" pipe, then it's about 2.1" per side. I definitely want to merge all 6 pipes, because otherwise it'll sound like I've got a pair of triumph motorbikes in the engine bay rather than a 6 cyl. 24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted July 10, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2023 Another sidetrack - back to the sump. Looks like will try machine it entirely out of a single 32mm plate, as 25mm wasnt going to be quite enough. This might help solve my oil filter situation. On the bottom of the front timing cover is the outlet of the oil pump, which feeds down into the sump for the oil filter, then goes back into the sump, back up into the front timing cover. I've been tossing around a few ideas for how to address this, maybe running some internal AN lines or a welded in pipe that does a U turn so I can have some AN fittings come out on the top face of the pan. Then run a remote filter. However since it will all be a single piece now, maybe it can be drilled like this so it comes out the front. Or, drilled but then a plug screwed in, and other holes drilled on top so the fittings face upwards. Will need to see what sort of clearance I've got to the swaybar in this area. Poking out the front might not work. I might also not have enough clearance to the front pulley for this to work. Anyone else got any good ideas for how to address this, that I might not have thought of? Sometimes when staring at the same model for so long, there are some obvious ideas smacking you in the face that you cant see. The factory sump does it like this. EDIT: Gosh I could tap that line for the oil pressure sensor as well, like factory one does. Sweet. 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted July 11, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2023 Alright I think I've nearly got a plan sorted. I remembered the 4WD 4GR which I saw at pickapart. It had an oil filter housing that bolted on, rather than cast as part of the sump. However it looks fugly and it's stupidly bulky: Doesnt look like a useful option. However, it got me thinking that maybe there's a better type of bolt on filter housing from something else. Scouring the internet relentlessly has lead me to the Mazda 3 filter housing. Looks bloody good! So hopefully I can have this sitting on top of the sump plate, by drilling holes like this. Hopefully the oil flow direction is the right way around. But eyeballing it I think it's gonna be backwards. pooz. There's another variation of Mazda 3/6/whatever filter housing that could be good too, looks like the lines run the other way. And it's got a thread for a pressure sensor or switch too. Might try find this one, if there's any at pickapart. 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted July 22, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 22, 2023 I found a few more contenders for oil filter options. The 4 bolt mazda one was a bit too chunky, and the orientation of the galleries further limited options. Then thanks to @ajg193 for pointing out that the 4K oil filter housing looks like a good contender - then thanks to @chrisR who found me one at pickapart on a 7K powered van or something. Looking like a better option! A lot more compact, and has the oil pressure sensor on it. Only downside is that the oil inlet pipe is 13mm dia. Where as my main galleries are 18mm. Which ends up around half of the cross sectional area. Makes me a little nervous to commit to it. I did some more pickapart scouring. I found another one one from a Suzuki swift that looked good. 3 bolt flange, but seals with an o-ring instead of a gasket which makes life easier. And the fully circular inlet makes it easier to orient it on any angle. Also the inlets and outlets look plenty big. sweet. Looking fairly promising with a test fit, keeps it nicely out of the way. So I've modelled this up, then I am just printing a test piece of the front of sump to make sure it will clear everything. I'd rather not have to remove the oil filter housing every time I need to take the front pulley off, or fit a new belt. The outlets of the 4GR oil pump have 250mm2 outlet/inlet area each. This filter housing has 330mm2 for the center hole, and 450mm2 for the bean shaped thingy. That puts my mind at ease! Fingers crossed this all works, then can fire off a final version of the file to get the plate cut. Exciting! Will end up turning an 18kg plate into a 3kg final part. 34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted July 22, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 22, 2023 Well its nearly there! Might need to be another 5 or 10mm further forward. Be good to drop it a little lower but im running out of thread depth. As the rear of the three holes sits on top of the gallery. Then I should be able to get the belt on/off with it in place. Need to remove the filter housing to take the pulley off, but thats probably only a task for major operations anyway. Can live with that. 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted July 24, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2023 Sorted! Just 10mm further out and a 5mm drop and life is good. Probably dont need the 5mm drop. Now just need to go over my model with a fine tooth comb, and make sure everything's actually good with no weird geometry or whatever. Also, in testament to the fact that absolutely nothing on this engine wants to fit. I have to cut off the timing mark stand thing, to run the belt where it needs to go. FFS. haha. Hopefully this is the last in the series of punishing oil filter posts. 33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted August 7, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 7, 2023 I found a belt path that hopefully works decently, with a very simple tensioning setup. If you undo the top bolt of the alternator and swing it down, it's not tensioned by the idler anymore. Ha! So you can get the belt off. Hopefully has enough tension on it this way. The trick to making this work was a smaller diameter idler pulley, that was on clearance sale at repco for 3 bucks. Which makes it sound like I'm smart so lets not discuss the $6 pulley and the $100+ of wrong sized belts that got me here. Either way, it's another small task sorted hopefully. Also! I've been doing scouting missions to pickapart whenever I'm near one of them for work. I've been waiting for a Mark X to turn up that's got the motor and box out for easy access. As I'm still looking for a bellhousing. I found one at Mangere where it's all out on the ground in front of the car. So will head back with some tools at some point and try wrestle that bellhousing out. It's tempting to just grab a whole extra motor and box, as they're cheap - Hopefully there will still be a few around when I've got a bit more $$ and space to put things. 29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted August 8, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 8, 2023 Hey, looks like a great day for Pickapart! Time to get a bellhousing. So I using some fairly crappy tools I brought, after smashing a few knuckles and many swear words I got a gearbox separated from an engine. Luckily I didnt have to undo the torque converter, it just slid off. As that was looking like a whole other nightmare. I couldnt get the bellhousing off the box, and it's same price for a full box. So I decided I'll just grab the whole thing. However, my next problem. I'm down near the back of Mangere Pickapart and there are no wheel barrows or carts or anything. This transmisison is bloody heavy. I can carry J160s okay, but this thing is beefy. So, I made a little sled out of an engine heat shield and a seat belt. Instagram vs real life: Then I dragged it to the car on a piece of carpet. What a mission haha. The auto bellhousing is very short, but hopefully the idea of a cut and shut onto J161 front will work okay. That's enough punishment for one morning though. 39 8 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted August 9, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2023 Alright so one of the reasons I've been dreading dealing with the bellhousing situation, is that usually things are located with 2 or three dowel pins, and then held together with bolts. The problem is that unless you get the dowel position exactly correct to the centreline of the input shaft, it can end up being way off. Then you might end up having problems like the gearbox runs real hot, or keeps wearing out bearings or whatever and wont necessarily know why. So, I think the universe decided I deserved a bit of a win after the adventure of aquiring the box. Because the Mark X auto box doesnt use dowel pins or anything like that, to locate the bellhousing onto the gearbox... It just has a giant circle, and a giant round hole that press up against each other. Too good! So a bit of brain storming with a few mates and taking some measurements, I think I've got a plan. Basically the J160 bellhousing is 25mm longer than the Auto one (hooray) So I'll basically cut almost the whole thing j160 front off, and weld on a flange/ring that will be easy to position relative to the input shaft hole. As the bellhousing wont be in the way. Then the bellhousing locates on the ring, and bolts up. Sweet! Also this bellhousing pattern is bloody easy. Both sides are symmetrical and it's really easy to index their positions relative to the round hole. So something like this will end up welding onto the gearbox. I am thinking could use a second plate in the middle that also slots into the input shaft hole of the gearbox. So it will be exactly central. Then once it's welded on, the bellhousing can center itself on the ring, and bolt into the correct place easy as! The only issue will be that there's no hole for the clutch fork to go through, and will need some bosses welded on for a slave cylinder. EDIT: no, the existing slave cyl holes will work as they are further back. Sweet. So I'm gonna chop up a bellhousing, print a test piece and then I'll hopefully have @Stu be able to work some magic with machining and welding etc. Pretty awesome that this looks like it'll work easily, as long term I've always viewed this sort of job as really difficult / above my paygrade. 36 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted August 10, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2023 I dont know if this is news to anyone else, but today I discovered that cut off discs for aluminium are a thing. It was actually super easy to cut this off. RIP 1G J160 bellhousing. You will not be missed. I've cut it quite high so that it can be milled down accurately. However, so long as I could centralize the new bellhousing correctly, it might work out alright just to weld it straight together rather than use a plate. Imagine that the top half has its cut line about another 50mm or something further up, where it tapers in a bit more. Unfortunately I've got work trips keeping me busy through nearly all of next week so it'll be a while until I can make any further progress. However, on the whole I'm stoked with how things are progressing currently. A few of the big remaining jobs are very close to getting ticked off. Or more specifically, once the sump and bellhousing are sorted. Then I can finish other jobs that are dependent on these being finished. like finalize the engine height/position and make a gearbox crossmember. It's going to be awesome to have the motor all put back together, and sitting in the right spot. 38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted August 16, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 16, 2023 It made my day today when @Stu sent me through some pictures of bellhousing progress! Firstly the J160 front was milled down to 15mm above flush, to give the correct overall length later. Then it was noticed that a 75mm tube fit into the input shaft hole nicely. So then a second round part was machined that fits centrally over the 75mm tube, to the dimensions to centralize the auto bellhousing onto this. Then all tacked together, ready for a test fit after taking the bits out of the middle. So in the end there was no need for an intermediate plate. I'll hopefully have time for a test fit in the next few days. But I'm 100% amazed and relieved about how much simpler the job has been thanks to the auto box having that circular mounting setup. (The job was also easier than expected, because Stu did all the hard bits...) So thanks again for the assistance and expertise. Very much appreciated. 47 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted August 18, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2023 I yanked the motor back out and put the new bellhousing setup on. All fits up great and angles are great. I'll need to cut a hole for the clutch fork, unless I feel like punishing myself with a concentric slave cyl. Then I'll deliver back to Stu for it to get fully welded. There's easy clearance for everything, and I've got the motor/box pushed back to a pretty sweet spot. Easily get 4 cylinders behind the axle line which is cool. Then next fiddly task is just getting the engine to sit lower, now that I know it's final-ish resting place. The shifter position has worked out good, maybe a smidge too far forward. But this is with the SQ Engineering relocation bracket, the standard shifter is further back. I've got a few driveshaft front halves here, one that was previously too long might end up fitting alright now. It's too flogged out to actually use, but will be a handy when getting a new one made up if I've got one the right length. But, with my new found skills of pooing metal together I can cut and shut something to exactly the right length as a sample, anyway. 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted August 18, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2023 My current intake setup will get the ball rolling, but, I think throttles are probably too small. The centers are less than ideal and the fuel rail position is uncomfortably close to the bonnet. But the quality and strength of the print of the manifolds, from the 3rd party print has blown my mind! So good. One thought I've had is to get 6x tiny ethrottles and control them all individually for lolz. Otherwise, been thinking. Can you print entire throttle bodies, rather than just adapters? Well, Not really. Because the problem is that you need a super thin metal throttle plates. So that lends itself to being metal or similar only. But do you know what usually sucks to make out of metal? Barrel throttles. Barrel throttles might be entirely printable, or partially printable (either just housing or barrel) because there are no thin parts needed. The thickness of everything is liability from metal but a positive for printing. There's (I think) going to be less thermal expansion compared to aluminium and so hopefully less chance of throttle sticking. This would help with my bonnet clearance issue, as I can mount throttles further down towards the head. My current setup needs to be mounted high-ish, because otherwise the transition is disgusting. Barrel throttles can be a non circular profile no problem so you can just have them the same shape as the port all the way up. Anyway, thinking something that looks like this. Bong shaped intake, paying some homage to my West Auckland cultural heritage. Maybe I could make some trumpets out of 8% woodys cans. Another problem with barrel throttles is that at part throttle they can end up pooling fuel in the barrel section, then having a hernia on full throttle when it tips it all in. But I figure you dont actually need both sides of the barrel to seal, and these will be vertical. So injecting inside the barrel itself and having the rear half more open would probably be sweet. At part throttle like this: The barrel shape itself is still quite simple to allow for the injector. But ends up being a decently solid part without any delicate sharp edges anywhere. (Shape obviously gets more complicated to allow for bearings and TPS etc etc, but you get the idea) Probably a project for the distant future as I've got my hands well and truly full currently. But would be pretty cool, have always wanted to try a barrel throttle. 32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted August 26, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 26, 2023 Some good progress! I got Kelford valve springs and retainers fitted (with many swear words) The heads torqued down, cam timing done, (standard cams for now) and front cover gooed in place. Bellhousing is now fully welded, but I havent swapped this onto the proper box yet. So back in the hole, then accessories fitted, all covers etc back on, throttles on, coilpacks in. Then I thought I'd have another try at fitting the Mark X radiator, that I bought from pickapart a while ago. As it really would make life easy if it works. Well, it sort of does! Sorry for potato pic. There's enough height for it to fit without hitting the bonnet, and I could make mounts for it to sit so the factory pipes work okay. Which would be awesome, as I usually end up with a mish mash of cut and joined pipes on car projects. But there's one issue. The radiator cap is mounted on the outlet on the engine, not the radiator. So in factory config, the motor sits higher than the radiator. Mine will be opposite. As I cant move the radiator any lower, but the engine will sit a little lower than current position. I'll end up splashing coolant everywhere if I take the radiator cap off, and probably wont bleed all the air out. So the options are that I could run an inline radiator cap in the top hose near the radiator. (Which will look gumby) Or otherwise cut the front housing and reweld the cap a little higher up, so it's at the highest point of the cooling system. But the pipe angles might still cause some bleeding issues. It's damn close to being a good solution, and there are aftermarket Mark X radiators available if it needs more cooling. So I'd like to run it all like this if I can figure out a good way to make it work. Next on the list while a few other parts are still in the works, is to start on wiring. So I'll need to decide where to mount the battery, and then test if it has enough grunt to crank the motor over. This engine doesnt have variable reluctors for the crank angle sensors, like every previous Toyota engine I've had. It has 3 wire hall effect. So this means I can probably get a good rpm signal at a lower rpm than VR sensors. Which might make start up time and cranking a little easier on the battery. As the VR sensors seem to need to get up to say 600rpm or there abouts to register a high enough voltage. One annoying thing though, is these sensors output quite a low voltage. So to get them working with link ECU, need to wire in some pullup resistors. But, I've got a solid plan for how it's going to work this time. I'll lead most of the wiring into the vee under the throttles. I might print a little cable tray for that area, with just small branches coming off rather than a big trunk. To allow for the inevitable loom meddling I'll be doing later on for whatever reason. 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted August 31, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 31, 2023 I managed to get the radiator sitting a little lower, so I actually think it will be okay even when engine sits down a bit more. I had a mix and match of various driveshaft pieces, and have managed to put something together that is the right length. Sweet! The UJs seem okay but I should probably get them rebuilt so I dont have another incident. breaking the front UJ at ~80kph was scary. I've started on the loom. I'm gonna have 4x 16 way connectors that live in the vee of the engine, like this: then 2x 12 way plugs on the cabin side that connect the ECU to other stuff. What I found on the last loom that I made for the echo. Was that although I tried to make things tidy, the plugs into the ECU were messy because things unnecessarily crossed over a lot. So for starters, just trying to allocate everything to the 4x plugs. In a way that makes sense for position in engine bay. And keep the higher voltage stuff away against shielded signal wires or whatever. Then I've just allocated everything fairly randomly to relevant pins on the ECU and see how it lays out. Then reorder things so everything is grouped together as much as possible, so the plugs dont become a god forsaken mess like every other time. This has paid dividends as it made it easy to see that if I just swap around input 1 for input 5 (or whatever) then the grouping improves considerably. Also, it's made it way way way easier to actually make the loom - Firstly because it's broken down into 4x sub looms and each of these are smaller, less intimidating tasks. Then secondly the main branch of the ECU into the engine bay is just a straight run ending in 4x plugs. Rather than branching out to everything. So it's way easier to test and trace the individual sections. I've already finished the first sub loom, for injectors and coilpacks. Fairly quickly because it's so much easier when you're working to a plan. Maybe this is why wiring diagrams exist? Who can say? Injector wiring looks fairly discrete which is good. The coilpack wiring is a bit more obvious, (waiting on some more terminals to finish it) but should hopefully still look nice and tidy. These days I prefer to just stay with more thinner branches rather than trying to incorporate everything into one. Partially because I always end up chopping and changing my looms around. But also 4x smaller branches end up considerably more flexible and easy to position. As I'm not using tefzel wire that easily slides against itself to make super flexible motorsport spec looms. (TXL is a cheaper automotive spec alternative) Hopefully I'll get most of this smashed out fairly quick once some extra terminals turn up. 35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted September 4, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 4, 2023 My loom is mostly finished. Will give it a few tweaks to make it look tidier but happy with how its turned out. I still need to plug it all in and verify that everything works / wired to the correct place / etc. Which takes some time. I've got two more plugs to do, that tie into the body loom and my fusebox arrangement. So I need to try remember how all of that works. I've given up on finding e-throttle plugs, so I just slotted some terminals onto the pins inside. Filled up the plugs with liquid plastic from the 3d print pen. Then heat shrink over the top, and silicone in the end. Feels nice and secure, hopefully works good. Will probably do the same with the 2nd TPS that I cant find a plug for. 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted September 10, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2023 A few things going on. Most of the wiring is tested and working well. A few mistakes I made with wiring order which were easily remedied thanks to being able to repin the sub loom plugs. The TPS on the second set of throttles, runs absolutely nothing like any TPS I've seen before, which is annoying haha. It wasnt simply two voltage divider circuits. It uses some fancy chip that looks at the field lines coming off a magnet that rotates, then draws two sine waves that get compared by the ECU to determine throttle position. Or some crap like that. So, that's off to the bin. I will need to print an adapter to put a second "normal" TPS on there. But it's been annoying that I havent been able to test my ethrottle controller yet. Since it's a small fiddly part that needs quite exact tolerances, I shall borrow a favor from @flyingbrick who has an awesome resin based 3d printer. The dimensional accuracy is amazing, he previously printed me a fitting to go on the end of my valve spring compressor tool. Which worked great, and showed no signs of wear or damage after fitting 24 very stiff springs into two heads. Thanks Nathan! Also, I found a cheap set of bogan spec 13x7 4x114 Cheviot US800 wheels that I can fit my drag slicks onto. So that will be cool. Hopefully I can make it to December OS Drags via tech inspection. Even if it means the car will need to be running with standard cams and the crappy factory exhaust manifolds or whatever. Fingers crossed I can keep the momentum up and get things done in time. Another thing is that a while ago I decided I want to run a digidash instead of a factory one. So I made this which worked out quite well and was cool. But I felt like the styling wasn't quite right, and I somehow wanted to use up more of the space on the sides. But couldnt quite think of how to achieve that. In the meantime, with the Echo. I discovered just how absolutely magnificent it is, to have a graduated shift light where the bars start from each side, and meet in the middle. The accuracy on shifting is really amazing. So I have been looking into how I can incorporate some LED bars into the shape. But, then I went a bit further down the rabbit hole and figure that instead of using an LCD screen (which was 800x480 resolution in the above case) I have found that you can get 2mm pixel pitch LED screens which would be super cool for this I think. So I've found a screen that is 256mm across, and 128mm tall - which is a pretty damn good fit for the carina dash: (The circle indicates the visual block caused by the inside edge of the steering wheel, so outside of that is fairly useless space) Previously I was trying to emulate the sharp edged aesthetic of a fixed segment LCD display. However this will end up looking a bit more... Commodore 64 or something. haha. I'm not 100% sure if it will work out how I'd like, but it will be fun to play around with. There is already a really awesome library written for it, to run on a Teensy 4.0 which can render things crazily fast. One issue with the LCD screen I was previously using is that the refresh rate was fairly crap. Which is why you cant have things like a shift light/bar just represented on the screen. It's too slow. But these LED screens have an insanely fast refresh rate, no problem. So I can incorporate my shift lights directly onto the screen and it will be super fast. Here's a video to get the general idea: 25 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted September 11, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 11, 2023 Surprisingly, my current rear brakes fit 13" wheels no problem! I did need to use the spacers to clear the calipers to face of the wheel though. I'm super hyped for drag racing activities! Looks sweet on trailer wheels and slicks. haha. I thought my mate with the 808 wagon was running 1.8 60ft on these same tyres, but he's run a few 1.6s. That is just an insanely fast launch. The best I've ever done in the Carina was a 2.5, best in the Echo on these slicks was 2.09. If I could get below 2.0 sec 60ft in this car I'd be stoked. I'm thinking I'll do my previous trick of extending the bump stops so that it's nearly sitting on them at its resting height, for drag stuff. 36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted September 16, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 16, 2023 In today's episode of "why the fuck are things this hard" Adapting a TPS to get rid of the stupid magnet based one. Thanks once more to @flyingbrick who has printed me a test version of my TPS adapter on his resin printer. Initally I just needed to figure out where things would end up, to see how to tweak it. So I ended up skinnying it up a lot and adjusting a few bits to make it align and rotate nicely. The (hopefully) final version features a gratuitous amount of fillets, because, thats what you do. Hopefully once this is finished I can finally do some testing on the H bridge setup for the second ethrottle bank. 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted September 25, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 A few bits of progress. Dual e-throttle This has been harder than expected because PID settings that work great on the ECU, are totally different to the PID settings that work on my controller. If anyone wants an easy to digest explanation of PID control, then this video is absolute magic. I end up rewatching it every time I forget what each of the variables do. I've found out the reason for the settings being way different, is that the I and D in P.I.D. are time dependent variables. So if you are refreshing the controller at 100hz, needs totally different values to 200hz (or whatever else) Since the H bridge hardware is different to what's in the ECU as well, It might react at a different speed. So needs different numbers too. I managed to get it tracking fairly close to the ECU controlled throttle, but still had some issues with things like slamming the throttle really hard into the end stop, when it's trying to shut it quickly. I think I need some more complex code to stop integrator windup and maybe some different PID values for when it's opening, vs closing. As the return spring obviously makes it react differently one way to the other. These throttles act quite "sticky" compared to others I've used, like it needs heaps of current to start getting it moving. Then once it's moving, you need to rapidly reduce it towards the target. So its been harder to get the numbers right, even with the ECU controlled bank. I think I'll just resign to the fact that having both throttles run from matching external hardware will be the way to go here. Sidetrack / scope creeping the intake setup I've also still got the nagging issues of that these throttles are closer together than I'd prefer. But I also need to try mount them close to the ports so I've got bonnet clearance - which means my manifold shape is okay but a bit yuck. So I've still been half way considering other options while I've been plugging away at other stuff. With some interesting timing I've been chatting with @Hurmeez who has an absolutely kick ass Escort Wagon project, with a Mazda KL V6 engine. Which unfortunately recently was in some flooding but hopefully keeps making good progress soon. He's been using some of the BMW throttles from the V10. However for a few reasons he has ended up needing to run the throttles quite far from the head, in which I think is a really awesome looking setup: However having the throttles mounted in that position presents him with some maintenance difficulties for things like changing spark plugs. He's had similar nagging thoughts in the back of his head, about changing his setup. So he's been looking at options for a more compact throttle setup that can live in the vee. As it turns out, my Triumph throttles are insanely close to the bore spacing of the Mazda V6. The Mazda engine has 97.5mm bore spacing, and the Triumph throttles have a 94mm spacing. Which is pretty damn close to perfect really! I'm not sure if this is the right gasket for his engine, but I found one online and scaled it for a quick sketch of how a manifold might look. Even with quite a short manifold, it looks really good as the throttle distance/size is very similar. So I'll go take my throttles up to Auckland some time so he can have a test fit. Probably easy enough to print a few PLA manifolds for a test fit as well. Then in return, I'll see if I can have a borrow of the BMW throttles too. If it looks like it'll work out well for both of us, we might end up doing a swap. The BMW throttles can more easily be spaced apart, which suits me better. From factory, the BMW throttles use linkages to connect to a single e-throttle motor that runs both banks. So this might get rid of another one of my headaches if I can go down that path instead. So, on one hand I'm not overly keen to scope creep the intake setup when the current setup "works". However eliminating the need for 2 ethrottle motors is appealing. See how it goes! Bellhousing swap So far I've just had empty casings bolted to the back of the bellhousing and motor, so its lighter and easier to test fit everything. However, thought I'd better finally put this on the proper box. Well, this was a friggen headache! The bellhousing should fairly smoothly just slide on over the bearings and front shaft things with a few taps. However what was happening is that it would barely engage on the bearings, then become super tight. I could put in some bolts to wind the front casing on, but then its locked in tight and nothing will rotate - and there's not enough room to get the circlips on the front bearings. I thought maybe the casing had pulled a little, bit from the heat of welding. But it looks like the circlip groove on the bearing had caught on the lip of the housing, and galled the bearing housing, and dragged some shit down into the hole then made stuff worse. So I dremeled a fillet onto the bearing holes, and knocked off the high spots. Then after a lot and I mean a LOT of trial and error I managed to get it all together succesfully. When you pull the front casing off a J160 box, there is a little lever arm that is only held in place by a pin that screws in after the bellhousing is on. So you need to fit a rubberband over it to hold it in place, and hope it is nicely aligned and doesnt pop off when you put the pin through. Which sure enough, it popped off a bunch of times before I managed to make it work. Not a job I hope to repeat any time soon! I also cut a hole for the clutch fork, and shoved a spare clutch/flywheel assembly in there to see if there's enough travel etc. Everything's looking good, hopefully I'll have the modified flywheel back soonish so I can whack it all together and onto the engine, ready to go! Digidash The screen and controller board thing for my LED screen turned up. And it doesnt necessarily show well in pictures but the LED screen looks absolutely super cool! It took a little while longer for the control board to turn up. Once it did, I was looking forward to loading up the demo software and assessing whether this is a viable option for the viewing distance. I remember reading in the instruction manual a few weeks ago, that these can draw a fairly crazy amount of current. They have some grunty big power wires, then regular small wires for the control board etc. So I hooked up a 2amp 12 volt power supply for starters, not sure if this was enough. A few lines on the screen were flashing, but it wasnt responding to inputs. But it was crazy bright, like burn my brain out bright. I figured it was drawing more than 2 amps, so I connected it straight to a 12v battery annnnnddddd blew it to smithereens So back to RTFM and yeah it turns out that it does draw lots of current... But with a 5 volt power supply, not 12 volt. Haha. Oh man. So I've paid the stupid tax and ordered another one, but will be a few weeks away until I can see how well it will work. Finalizing engine height I printed a section of the new sump design, so I can finalize and minimize my engine height. I thought I'd print this at double speed, because I am impatient. This turned out great: So after throwing that in the bin, I had to end up printing another one anyway, at regular speed. Which turned out properly. Ha. There's probably a life lesson in there somewhere. With some plasticine measurements, eyeballing, and iterative cuts lower. I managed to get the engine around another 7mm further down. with what I'm hoping is acceptable clearance to the crossmember. I was considering cutting a dish section into the crossmember, but there's no point - As the steering rack is currently about level with the crossmember's max height anyway. There's no way I'd want to lower the steering rack, or space down the crossmember as both of these options are nasty for steering geometry. I would also have another issue, that the bottom of the bellhousing is getting perilously close to the road. Even at the ride height the car is currently at, which is hardly mega slammed. But, it's about ready to have the crossmember mounts welded on which is cool. Oil pickup tube Since this motor usually has the oil pickup right down the back, but oil pump up the front. It's got a very long oil pickup tube, like so: So I need to modify or replace this, and I've not done anything yet. Thankfully since I have a cad drawing of both the new sump part, and the altezza pan relative to each other. It's easy to work out the new position without lots of fiddling around to take the pan off and on etc. So the new pickup is going to be about 70mm across, but annoyingly it will cross over the bolt hole. So I think it'll need to run it's original direction for a bit first, then have a bend to reach it's target. I might sit it a little further back than center of the hole, because I'm guessing acceleration will be the worst case scenario for oiling when I've only got a very shallow pan under the windage tray. So I've at least got some semblance of a plan before I go cutting everything up. I might print a little jig to show the position it needs to end up in relative to the pickup bolt holes. Might print it at regular speed this time, who knows. Firewall fixup Since I'm reasonably close to having the motor all sorted, it makes sense to get the engine bay ready for it to go back in, so it can (hopefully) stay in. So I need to make some progress on properly cutting out and then patching up the firewall. So I'm looking for a section of panel steel, around 1000x600mm or so. Does anyone have any for sale? As I'd rather not have to end up buying a 6m length (or whatever) from Steel & Tube, when I'll never end up using the rest of it. So, some slow progress and dumb mistakes but I'm still heading in the right direction overall. 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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