robevo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Hi All Looks like the current fuel setup is not up to scratch for the escort. Im going to plumb up a surge tank and new pumps etc.. and thought I would get peoples opinions on a couple of things First off I will try best to describe what im planning on... -8 out of bottom of tank -8 filter -8 in and out of carter lift pump -8 into surge tank top -8 out of surge tank bottom to Bosch 044 -6 out of 044 -6 filter to engine (now this is where I am after what others are doing) -6 return from engine to surge tank -6 over flow back to tank Please comment if you see something you think is not right My questions are - Should I return back to the surge tank. or back to the main tank?? - reason being hot fuel from the engine not the best, but the surge tank will always be full guaranteed - if I do return back to the surge, should I run -8 as the over flow back to the main tank - If I do return back to the tank, in my head the lift pump needs to out flow the 044 pump to maintain the surge tank to be full? - If I return back to the main tank, I will just use a ' Y ' fitting to merge the engine return and surge overflow. and run two -6 in and one -8 out The carter is rated at 72 GHP -- Ive seen the bosch 044 rated at anything from 200lph to 300lph -- But im un sure how these relate to pressure while on boost etc not really my thing haha Im sorry if this is confusing, I have tried to be as clear as I can hahaha If your un sure the car is a escort wih a ca18det. - this is built to be a fun car, road driving, drags, gymkana, track days etc etc FYI the whole setup with be fragola fittings with stainless braid line Thanks in advance Cheers ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77magnum13hundy Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 do you mean 6 mill pipe to feed fuel rail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robevo Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Hi Sorry, when I say -6 or -8 I mean AN fittings. -6 = 7.5mm & -8 =10mm (tube internal diameter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteretep Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 can I ask what is happening with the setup? I was just going to have a filter and high pressure pump mounted under the boot tray with a fuel regulator and return line in the engine bay in my car. I have read that it works pretty good on escorts due to the vertical tank shape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robevo Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 I have a large miss/cut under full load/boost in high revs - so one of the things it could be is running out of fuel, hence the upgrade. (and it was always planned) For me I was just not comfortable having pumps etc under the car. Just a personal preference. So all my pumps filters etc are in the boot, next to the tank. I have the Vl commodore pump atm (will be for sale after the upgrade) and have been told they don't "suck" so having trouble lifting the fuel from the tank, seeing as its 1/3 - 1/2 way up from the bottom. I will try add a pic of my current setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 You should put the return into the surge tank, and the feed from the tank should go in the bottom not the top. Also you should fuck all those horrible AN fittings off and use standard EFi Hoes and hose barbs, much betterer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robevo Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Sorry guys, cant figure out how to post pics atm. the new post pic button is not there? Anyway - there is a pic of my current fuel setup in the my project thread. Cheers Rookie - My surge is as follows - low pressure carter IN top. Rail return IN top. Over flow outlet top - Outlet to EFI pump - bottom Is this what you mean? I have just about finished making the surge tank, again would post a pic, but not getting it atm haha Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Also you should fuck all those horrible AN fittings off and use standard EFi Hoes and hose barbs, much betterer. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Because they expensive and horrible to make. And provide no benefit. They are ok when you want a bling engine bay like you though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Does your surge tank not have 2 bungs at the bottom? because if you put the inlet at the top you can froth the fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robevo Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 All the info I have found says to add fuel to the top of the tank, so you always have a 'head' of fuel above the outlet. I may have found some answers to this - The Radium engineering ( radiumauto.com ) say an increase of fuel temp 20-30 degs, decreases fuel density by aprox 2% - add that to a fuel ratio of 12:1 makes the difference inconsequential Have a look, as im keen to hear all opinions Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 It is more the free fall that I was thinking about, but if your tank only has one bung at the bottom then it is fine; Like most of these things many of the methods work great. You have the right idea though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteretep Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I probably would have said low pressure fuel infeed at the bottom of the tank or maybe just slightly higher than the outfeed to the high pressure pump, but I guess that could lead to fuel draining out when the car isnt running depending on the pump. Many other people do it the way you have mentioned by looking around the net so its probably fine too The low pressure fuel pump would not be adding any extra head by discharging into the top of the surge tank (it would but it wouldnt affect anything) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I would not suggest that fitment Dash type fittings is a must, If you want to have an engine bay (or fuel system) which is relatively easy to put together (or pull apart) I believe that they are a relatively good solution. I am glad i went away from the messy hose barb fitment in my starlet boot to a pile of AN bits, even a mixture of push-on and AN fittings may work well depending on the installation. You can pair it up these days (in pushlock form) with some hose which is not super bling stainless braid. (you won't see shiny braided hoses coming out of my new rocker cover) Also there are probably some better (quieter) pumps out there than an 044 you could consider if you have not forked out for them already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robevo Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Yea, Im fully AN fittings all they way, Just for being able to work on things SO much easier - And yea abit of bling is not a bad thing sometimes hahaha No I havnt brought any pumps yet, what would you suggest? I was looking at the 044, just as it seems EVERYONE is using them, and seems to be the most used pump around. What would you suggest? I was looking at the Walboro pump as its $100 cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0fnsiv Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Say 'NO' to Walboro....they're rubbish! Genuine 044 for the win and reliability. -8 for tank to surge to pump to engine, -6 for engine to surge tank(return), -4 for surge vapor to tank and tank vapor This way the carter(good choice) will actually keep positive pressure on your 044. Fill the surge from the top,with the return higher and the vapor higher if possible and feed the 044 from the bottom of the surge, even though the returned fuel will be a few degrees higher the flooding action of the carter will pretty much make it a non event...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Consider going away from the noise of geared /roller cell unless you like the wirrr. I have 1 car with an 044 and a couple , make that 3 running older geared type walbros. The Don't get me wrong the 044 will be reliable as will a genuine walbro All 4 cars I would prefer quieter pumps.(hindsight huh). http://www.boschautoparts.com/m/Pages/FuelPumps.aspx Not too phased by brand either bosch, aeromotive, or walbro (maybe the 400) would be great in my so long as turbine style to make then near silent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robevo Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Cheers ofnsiv - this is pretty much exactly how I have the surge tank mapped out Mjrstar - I see the link but where would I even start looking for this type of pump?? I'm looking purchasing in 2-3 weeks so I'm keen to look at all options, as a mate is running an 044 in his ceff, and yes it is damn noisy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robevo Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Have been thinking a lot about this fuel setup. One thing I have not thought of is the FPR. will the standard nissan one work? Or will I need an after market one? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCADTA Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Ive got a bosch 910, in the boot beside the tank, no swirl pot, works well with a escort tank. Had no problems with the fpr but as said they are noisy pumps. Are you sure your coil packs arent breaking down under full load? Or just looking at your build thread, is your AFM straight on your turbo? they like a bit of length between them so the turbulent air does mess with afm. Mine used to cough a bit up top until i changed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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