Ned Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Sweet whip. Have seen IRL and like! Keen to see it going though Link to Project Thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfalfa Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I remember that drive to taupo to pick up the first 85, and pulling the sunroof and other pieces off. So damn keen to see this finally running, and the rest of your pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock-Lee Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Guy down welly ways runs EWP on his 600hp chev v8. This is run without a thermostat and he swears by it, warms up faster, and it stays at set temp the whole time. Yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Nice work! It looks like you've put a lot of thought and effort into this - I'm impressed. EWP is probably not a bad idea and running no thermostat is good if the pump will take over the temp + restriction duties. I run no thermostat with a restriction washer in my car and it makes it much easier to bleed the system (open bleeder, jam hose in radiator, build up pressure, SQUIRT). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rot808 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 also keen to see this running man, didnt realise so much work had gone into it thus far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishtailfred Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Guy down welly ways runs EWP on his 600hp chev v8. This is run without a thermostat and he swears by it, warms up faster, and it stays at set temp the whole time. Wait, what? Something is badly wrong when a larger volume of water/coolant can warm up faster than a smaller one with the same heat energy input! IE, this is wrong. A good friend of mine, FRED, has always argued that the car should have a thermostat as it increases the pressure inside of the engine and helps to reduce localised boiling. Recently I have been thinking about this a lot as I don't want to risk damaging my motor. I now believe that this is a false statement (at least in the 4AGE world) as the thermostat on a 16V motor is at the start of the cooling flow and would therefore put the engine at a lower pressure than the radiator. The image below shows the flow direction: In addition to this I also stumbled across the FAQ on the Davies Craig website. This has made me even more confident in not running a thermostat. This is an excerpt from the page: What do I do with the engine’s existing thermostat? If you choose to use the Davies Craig Digital Controller you should remove the engine’s thermostat – the Controller is the new “thermostat”. The Digital Controller allows you to electronically set the engine target temperature and it adjusts the rate of coolant flow, hunting for, and then locking onto the temperature you set. You have five (5) options; 70c, 75c, 80c, 85c and 90c for either economy or performance, unlike your thermostat, which is set at one temperature by the engine manufacturer. More can be found here: http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Electric_Water_Pumps__EWP-content.aspx So my thoughts are now far more positive and I think my solution will be very elegant. It will be ultra simple from a plumbing perspective and if the marketing material is correct then I stand to gain a decent amount of power by ditching the mechanical pump I saw this and couldn't help but dob myself in here! No need to hide my name, though it was a nice gesture, thanks! You're right, it doesn't perform that task on that engine! I was wrong about that. What it does instead, though, is provide FULL pump flow at little or no restriction all of the time. This is the alternative system, bmw engines do this also. If you allow the flow to fall to a low rate, AND provide no residual pump to restriction pressure, you could have hot spotting issues. I'd love to convert my mazda engine to a full time recirc system like that, it's optimal. If you can replicate the same flow dynamics with an electric and save some jouls somewhere, great! What it comes down to if you maintain toyotas anti hot spotting design, is the efficiency of a belt drive vs the efficiency of an alternator + switching supply + electric motor. I don't like your odds. You can continue to disagree and ignore me though, I really don't care Fred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 We had a similar discussion in SHGWAG's rx7 thread I think it was, about the benefits or lack thereof, in going to an electronic water pump. At the end of the day, the same load is required only you are introducing losses into the system, as Fred mentions above. Personally I'm not a huge fan of running no thermo either. I had a car years ago on which the thermostat stuck open and it just wouldn't warm up at all. If you left it idling for about 20 minutes it would begin to move the needle on the temperature guage but as soon as you drove it, it would get cold again and the autochoke would come on (had a water diaphragm to control the choke). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock-Lee Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Guy down welly ways runs EWP on his 600hp chev v8. This is run without a thermostat and he swears by it, warms up faster, and it stays at set temp the whole time. Wait, what? Something is badly wrong when a larger volume of water/coolant can warm up faster than a smaller one with the same heat energy input! IE, this is wrong. Fred. You enjoy stirring shit dont you Fred. The EWP that is cooling this chev is completely variable, ie on start when the engine is cold it will pump a small volume to allow it to heat up faster and once at temperature it varies its flow to keep the temp between its upper and lower limits. It does warm up faster than any engine I have ever seen. And once at temp it stays at temp regardless of revs and/or speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock-Lee Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 We had a similar discussion in SHGWAG's rx7 thread I think it was, about the benefits or lack thereof, in going to an electronic water pump. At the end of the day, the same load is required only you are introducing losses into the system, as Fred mentions above. Under general driving conditions yes, I would agree with you. For a race car designed to sit in the upper range of its rpm then there are measurable gains to be made. At 6k+ rpm a mechanical water pump is pumping waaaaay more water than is required to keep the engine cool, all you are doing is wasting power to achieve nothing, there are underdrive pulleys on the market which have HP increase claims due to this very thing. Have seen figures of 3-4kw at high rpm being gained by bogans in aus with falcon 6's using davies craig + smart controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock-Lee Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Personally I'm not a huge fan of running no thermo either. I had a car years ago on which the thermostat stuck open and it just wouldn't warm up at all. If you left it idling for about 20 minutes it would begin to move the needle on the temperature guage but as soon as you drove it, it would get cold again and the autochoke would come on (had a water diaphragm to control the choke). Running no thermo with a variable EWP is slightly different, rather than just have a binary system for controlling water flow from cold you end up with a system that is continuously variable to make for a faster warm up and a more stable running temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishtailfred Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Guy down welly ways runs EWP on his 600hp chev v8. This is run without a thermostat and he swears by it, warms up faster, and it stays at set temp the whole time. Wait, what? Something is badly wrong when a larger volume of water/coolant can warm up faster than a smaller one with the same heat energy input! IE, this is wrong. You enjoy stirring shit dont you Fred. Only if I dislike the person involved, and not otherwise. What happened to vvvvega anyway? The EWP that is cooling this chev is completely variable, ie on start when the engine is cold it will pump a small volume to allow it to heat up faster and once at temperature it varies its flow to keep the temp between its upper and lower limits.It does warm up faster than any engine I have ever seen. And once at temp it stays at temp regardless of revs and/or speed. I apologise, I didn't notice the EWP thing and thought you were talking about a normal setup minus the tstat... Sorry! However, if you do it electric without tstat, then you face a different issue, thermal shock. BMW and, apparently, toyota run full flow for this reason. The coolant flowing through is always the right temperature and as close to the engine temp as possible. When cold is introduced, it is blended with hot, and pumped through at just the right warmness to cool the engine sufficiently. Feeding icy cold radiator chilled water in isn't ideal, to say the least. What about electronically controlled diversion valve AND electronically controlled pump. you can leave the pump doing what it always did, and make the speed match the requirement for movement, and the amount of cold introduced match the requirement for cooling. I like the sound of this. The REALLY nice benefit to an "EWP" is that you can leave it circulating coolant after you kill the key, great if you come into your driveway after driving hard the whole way home, for example. Fred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-Q Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I would strongly suggest agianst the davies craig water temp controller, it doesn't hold the pressure in the water system like a thermostat. Also I had a friend of mine run one which always ran cool even with their fancy controller and a representative of the company itself said to still run a thermostat! I think your friend is completely right as I had a customer who damaged his engine because it caused a hot spot in the back corner. So please be carefull. That aside I like your build is interesting and I think your roll cage design is excellent. Structually I so no place where I would change or improve the design. Whats your plan for the intake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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