Roman

Yeah that's fine, 4GR chat is a safe space to discuss shitty engines from other manufacturers too

Look for "Salinas speedway" on facebook. Some of the shit on there is absolutely wild. Puerto Rico drag racing visit is 100% on the bucket list.

Yeah might be a harsh dyno - or car might still need a bit more development. 2zz echos in puerto rico run 10 second quarter miles on a stock bottom end. Power levels of that car are similarish to my 1nz. But my motor was tapped out, that will have lots left in it! If it was staying at that power level though, id take the 1nz instead. Less weight, easier maintenance, much easier to replace a motor if needed. But if they commit to developing that car a bit more. It will be wild.

Found another option today. Suzuki swift. 3 bolt flange with bigger galleries and just an o-ring. Will compare options in a few days when back where car is.

@BiTurbo228 could you plz run the numbers on the 2mzfe and vq25hr ?

That or even a standard 5GR sounds good, however that also blows the budget (and engine replacement budget) completely to smithereens. 4GR = $700 replacement engine 2GR = $4000 replacement engine 5GR = $$$$$???? replacement engine or crank (only available in China) If the 5GR was more easily available, it would make sense as the best base to start from.

I'll never do a battery in boot again. I found the big cables to run a lithium battery to the boot, weigh more than the battery did. As close as practical to alternator and starter motor are the way to go I reckon. Then just make sure there's somewhere to clip on to recharge the battery or jump start the car if needed. Up under the dash can get fiddly

Yeah I dont think roller bearings will work for anything. As roller bearings on a crank are usually where the crank gets pressed together around the bearings I think? The rockers have roller bearings on them. Could always be made lighter though. Ceramic pistons is definitely not gonna happen but lighter/stronger rods and pistons should be easily achievable. Alright so ol mate @chris r was a GC and noticed a K series engine at Pickapart over the weekend. (I didnt think there would be anything K powered there! But late model liteace or whatever with a 7K) So he was kind enough to message me and ask if I wanted him to grab me the oil filter housing. I dont have it yet, but he took a measurement for me so I could scale the flange from a square on gasket drawing that I've got. So it's looking pretty good for fitting. Oil gallery drill holes are in red. The threaded holes for the flange have enough wall thickness away from the main pipes too. In terms of fitting it looks ideal, however I am a little concerned about oil feed pipe size. The 4GR oil pump outlet/inlet is 18mm dia, but the inlet on the K filter is 11mm. So it ends up around half of the cross sectional area. This motor runs all of the oil through the filter, no bypass. Then has 4x vvti pulleys, 6 oil squirters then all the other usual stuff to supply. So I'm a little concerned that it might be a bit of a restriction, but does anyone know if that's likely going to be an actual problem? I will go pull apart the standard 4GR filter assembly and see if it's got any bottlenecks in the filter housing. Since the plate the sump will be cut from is fairly spendy I'm not overly keen on getting this wrong. 4K setup is looking like an awesome solution so long as it will flow enough.

Yes, these motors are a bit like lego sets. There is the head, itself, then there's another layer up that holds the underside of the cams and rockers. Then cam caps bolt onto that. The 1GR engine, unlike the others is actually a valve on bucket engine. So, although it would be a bit of an engineering exercise. Not impossible to design a completely different cam/rocker arrangement that bolts on top of the head. However there are also some intermediate options like just designing some lighter rockers, or whatever.

Shimless buckets in the 1NZ. I think (?) rockers means you can have a more aggressive ramp rate as you're not limited by diameter of the bucket. But, on the whole the type of rockers present in GR motors seem to be troublesome / not ideal.

It was definitely interesting when I pulled the 1NZ apart and saw that the piston had ripped in half. Rather than the rods breaking which people usually do. (At much lower rpm, loading motor up with forced induction) I cant find any data on factory 1NZ piston weight. However JUN 1NZ pistons are 232 grams with the pin included! Not sure how much OEM ones are, but they also felt incredibly light. Well, at least the half of one that I was holding... Then the rods are tiny toothpicks as well. Looking through some logs it would bounce to 9200rpm when doing burnouts at the drags.

@BiTurbo228 the 4 cyl ducati that does 16500 rpm is something like 8000G.... but tiny tiny pistons so not really comparable

This is possibly the nerdiest thing I've ever seen. I guess what I'm trying to say is... Will you marry me? That's really cool data you've put together, well done. Will have a good look through this! I've not really considered bearing surfaces etc. Mainly because I'm completely ignorant on the topic. I guess it's unlikely that bearing area needs to squeeze up smaller than ideal, thanks to 4GR being dimensionally the same as a 2GR. With the 3500cc sized spacing between bores. It's got more room for bigger bearing surfaces and thicker crank in between, compared to a more regular 2500cc block of a straight six or whatever that's trying to be compact. So the crank weight is probably somewhere in between a compact 2500cc V6, and a 2500 compact straight six. Some interesting data points using your sheet. I think KPR has run both his long and short rod engines to 10k rpm, and they have identical stroke to my motor. Cant remember what pistons. But at 10k: KPR long rod motor is 5540 G, short rod motor is 5699 G. The VHT Racing Starlet's 4AGE runs to 11,000rpm with what I think is standard rod length, maybe a little longer. It's in a 4AGE block anyway, not 7A block. So even if they moved the piston pin up a bit, still wont be as good as KPR 7A block motor. A pretty extreme build with roller barrel throttles, liiiiiggghhhttt pistons and custom rods etc. But that's 6700 G. sheesh! Gets rebuilt a lot though I think. The 2500cc Alfa 155 DTM engine runs to 12,000rpm with a 61.3mm stroke, so that's around 6150 G assuming a 2:1 rod ratio. Obviously its a full blown race motor that' probably has a lifespan not much longer than a single race before everything gets rebuilt though. Extreme example. Ducati Panigale V4 R is a 4 cyl 1 litre engine that runs to 8500 G with a 48.4mm stroke and 16,500 rpm redline. But 250cc per cyl, obviously tiny pistons! So like you say, it's more about the G x the mass of the piston which tests the strength. Something else to consider about this 4GR project. Is that the valvetrain might absolutely 100% shit the bed at a much lower rpm than any of this carry on. And it might be an incurable problem. Stupid rockers! Either way, will be interesting. Haha. Buying a few blocks and making some parts to fix things that go boom is in the long term development budget. I really hope I dont fire anything out of the bonnet though, they're impossible to find these days.

What's the stud pattern on an rx4? 4x110 or some weird one aye?

Its... Its... Beautiful

Watch that video about the v12 exhausts. 6-1 would be way to go for epic soundtrack. But too hard.

The firing order isnt like a straight six either. This V6 firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6. So cyl 1-3-5 (left bank) and 2-4-6 (right bank) are the evenly spaced sets. Easy!

@thegreatestben From what I've seen they are largely based around fitting bike's available space. Notice the balance pipes though up near the flange. Seen this on a few bikes. On the S1000RR they have a throttle plate on the balance pipes, so they can open or shut depending on rpm, because it does (something something)

The V6 isnt like a V8 where the cylinders have uneven firing spacing on a bank. The only difference between 3 cyl and 4, is that the spacing is an even 240 degrees rather than an even 180 degrees. So presumably the scavenging effect just needs a longer pipe to acheive the same tuned rpm. I guess you could put a Y shaped section in the middle, to extend the merge like Rhys' example.

Cant find it. I suspect some kid grabbed it as a high tech souvenir, like they do at F1 car races

Oh wow. That actually looks pretty good, and would fit better! Anyone in Waikato got one spare?

Thanks though!

Found this on a Mazda 6. Not 100% cconvincedthe outlets are workable but will draw it up and see. might try get a mazda 3 one as well before i commit. As theyre only 11 bucks each.

Can prime it initially while the filter is off and syringe some oil down the inlet and outlet. But then after that it should hold all of the oil from the pump onwards when the motor is off.

Alright I think I've nearly got a plan sorted. I remembered the 4WD 4GR which I saw at pickapart. It had an oil filter housing that bolted on, rather than cast as part of the sump. However it looks fugly and it's stupidly bulky: Doesnt look like a useful option. However, it got me thinking that maybe there's a better type of bolt on filter housing from something else. Scouring the internet relentlessly has lead me to the Mazda 3 filter housing. Looks bloody good! So hopefully I can have this sitting on top of the sump plate, by drilling holes like this. Hopefully the oil flow direction is the right way around. But eyeballing it I think it's gonna be backwards. pooz. There's another variation of Mazda 3/6/whatever filter housing that could be good too, looks like the lines run the other way. And it's got a thread for a pressure sensor or switch too. Might try find this one, if there's any at pickapart.