burrowssj Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Ok old car gurus I call on your knowledge for advice once again Starter crapped itself. took it out replace brushes only to find the windings were damaged, So sourced another winding and fitted it to the existing drive gear put it back in can hear it turning over inside but doesn't seem to engage on the gear?(like its not getting enough juice) any ideas what this might be? faulty earth? my friend whos doing the majority of the work(and is a mechanic) thinks the switch might be to blame as its dropping from 12vs to 5-6v when cranking.So hes taken it away to have it tested engine is a 711 1600 crossflow and its an auto in a cortina mk2 It seems to bench test fine an looks to be working but when in car doesn't seem to be getting enough juice to engage? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 If the cog at the end of the shaft isn't throwing out when the starter motor is spinning it will not engage the flywheel. There are three possible reasons: 1) The starter motor is spinning too slow 2) The bendix arrangement is jammed, stopping the cog from moving 3) You have inadvertantly re-assembed the starter motor with the brushes 180 degrees out and the starter is spinning backwards My money is on #3...... but - where are you measuring the drop to 6v while cranking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967anglia Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I had sort of same issue with mine, would work out of the car but not in. So I ran an earth wire from battery to starter mounting bolt just to see if it was an earthing issue. And is now the best start of this type I have ever heard (worked great). Remove wire and went back to click click wrrrrr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakesae101 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 i would say your solenoid may be bung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrowssj Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 thanks everyone for the fast replies, I will go through an eliminate each one by one. Well battery has 12.5v but when cranking the switch or regulator? or what ever its called drops to about 5v when cranking- so neg on battery an positive on switch or reg or w/e (what is it actually called) also how do I test a solenoid? Don't know if this means anything but we also got a slight smell of burning plastic after removing an smelling up close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967anglia Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 "so neg on battery an positive on the positive side of switch or reg" Do you have to neg of battery connected to start switch (shouldnt be) only to car body and maybe engine block or head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrowssj Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 its hard to explain but il do my best. it goes from battery to the switch/reg then from there to the starter.on the other side it goes to the ignition?(assuming sorry I know little about starting circuits), an its just loosely screwed to the body. Il take some pics when we are done testing the switch. on a bench test the switch did click over constantly without any noticeable issues but it has always had a weak Voltage when on car. we* did notice It was loosely hanging from the body of car so I cranked while friend held it down firmly but didn't change... weird thing is until recently the starter worked well enough. it was always abit irregular an often was how do i describe this.... run run run runnnnannnanna run run run runanananannana ? If that makes sense to someone haha.I mean like it wasn't firing noise but just always seemed it wasn't getting correct power/earth connection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 im just going to put this here . ground out the body part properly clean the cable-body points with emery tape so there is a nice metal-metal contact . if its works mean . otherwise 5v is way too low. should be up at 8-10v min. the clicking at solinoid could very well be lack of energy to actually excite the solinoid itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCADTA Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 whats hangin loosely? the starter? if it is you will have a high resistant fault giving piss all cranking amps/volts even with your mate holding on to it. all a bit confusing the way you describe it. could be the rum though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967anglia Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 switch/reg=solenoid. Can bridge to connection with screwdriver if game. Will let you know if its stuffed, if works with screwdriver but not with key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrowssj Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 ok sorry to clarify. the starter is all bolted in nicely. the wires are nice an tight the battery terminals are on as tight as I can get them. the reg/switch which is attached to the body is screwed down but a slotted setup and does have alil play. When we saw this we held it down in place an I cranked but the Voltage did not change still stayed at around 5-6v. Could anyone clarify for me an my friend how we know if the brushes are 180degrees out? is there a way to test this or what am I missing here? EDIT* when we turn with key or short it out it just wizzzes no clicking just wizzing noise like its not getting enough juice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967anglia Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I would run a wire from neg battery to mounting bolt on starter. just to make sure it is a bad earthing issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrowssj Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 that was my mechanics friends first thought. He instantly said its like its got a faulty earth. Tomorrow I will go to supercheap an grab a nice fat earthing cable an give it a try. does anyone know anything about the starter brushes being in 180 backwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sliding_subaru Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well this is a great site!! I am the said "mechanic" and its got me stuffed Any help would be great!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrowssj Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 haha sliding subaru GC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCADTA Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 so is the the starter motor whizzing but not engaging. if its not engaging the solenoids stuffed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrowssj Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 yea it wizzes an is definitely getting power but just not enough to make it engage or w/e. like it doesn't crank the car at all, just an electrical buzzing noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sliding_subaru Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 so is the the starter motor whizzing but not engaging. if its not engaging the solenoids stuffed. Yea its got a lazy spin to it and its not connecting to the teeth on the flexi plate but its acts normally when its bench tested but as soon as it goes into the car its back to the lazy spin I see there is no earth lead going to the engine or gearbox........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCADTA Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 is it a pre engaged or centrifugal starter? if it wizzes but doesnt engage its your solenoid which stops it from engaging if its a pre engaged starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967anglia Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 so is the the starter motor whizzing but not engaging. if its not engaging the solenoids stuffed. This what I thought with mine, so replaced started motor and solenoids but still did same thing, but it all work fine on the bench thats what lead me to running the earth wire. If your start is working out of car it wont be the bushes. There seams to be a few old ford up your way with starting issues, maybe its something in the air.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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