kpr's kp60

[kpr]

Done some actual back to backs on this today.   
First the vvt travel is slightly aggressive for the cams in this engine. 20-25deg probably ideal  rather than the 30.    but have got the start and end points dialed in for pretty good compromise.  i can index the outer pulley to change it.  Its running about 10deg more advance than normal when vvt on and 20deg more retard when off.

 

Running the vvt setup first, then switching back to the fixed/adjusble cam gears set at my normal settings 

Blue: vvt  on  (advanced)
Red:  off

 

The pulley takes a little time to travel between advanced and retarded,  so the switch point is 7600 rather than the 8100 it looks like it should be.  which maybe a little disadvantage in the lower gears  when zings through the revs fast.    bit it actually helps fill in the dips. poor mans vvti 

black is vvt switching  off at  7600rpm 
orange is  best compromise  fixed cam timing

 

 

 

 

[kpr]

noticed this when editing video. worse than missing the odo roll over.   1019 runs..

 

And  video of the above stuff

 

 

[kpr]

Because putting vvt on your 4age isn't complex  enough.     This is my  approximately   84%  complete vvti  setup, along with belt drive upgrade.     Its at the point where ive got all the major components figured out.  Just need the last little bits to come together. Then test on engine to see if its a complete fail or not.

 

Since is probably fallen way off the radar.      you can tell me how retarded i am here:

https://oldschool.co.nz/index.php?/topic/21726-kprs-starlet/page/28/

 

 

 

 

[kpr]

Almost ready to bend some more valves

[kpr]

Got a bunch of teething issues and stuff to finish properly.  but managed to run it for a bit.  it was a bit wacky on the "2jz" vvti settings.  after messing around with the pid settings a little,  looks promising.  cam is advancing and retarding and matching the target in vvt map.  

The cam belt and pulley setup works good, no issues.   have a 25mm wide belt on there,  stock is 19mm. 

 

 

Also this engine is stuffed,   I had incident where the bolts backed out (may not have tightened them properly)  of the 20v vvt setup.  the inlet cam jammed up and bad stuff happened.  after that it was down 5kw or so, but still made over 130kw ha!    compression test come back 150, 150, 100, 150.    now with stock cams back in it its super obvious, runs on 3 cylinders until get over 2000rpm. 

I'll pull it apart once happy with how the vvti setup works.

 

 

[kpr]

Ok,  so i ignored all the oil leaks and bent valves, put it on the dyno.     most of its working as planned.

im not sure how fast its meant to respond.  this is unloaded 1st,2nd,3rd and bit of 4th on dyno.  which is a bit faster than it would accelerate on the road.   It doesn't keep up in 1st,  which is borderline free revving. but the rest is pretty good. some adjustments probably can get it even better.

 

first attempt I had it setup for too much advance and not enough retard.   so skipped a tooth on cam belt  which got it pretty close.   after a few runs with cam timing fixed at different  settings, built a rough vvti map.
using around 35 degrees of travel throughout the rev range.     It could go a few more adjustments, as can see in the graph below where the fixed timing slightly edges it out in places. 

Doesn't look super impressive,  but weak stock cams will do that

Red is  vvti holding 28degrees throughout rev range, which simulates the best compromise on a fixed timing setup
blue is my rough vvti map

To get that 114kw peak on a fixed timing setup would lose a huge amount of midrange

 

After that i had a play with the exhaust cam timing, was slightly off.  then run it up at 100deg oil temps.   i usually run tests at 90 or 95 because easier to keep there.   but hotter oil will make more power

Almost 117kw  with stock cams (not even bluetops) and some bent valves and an amazing amount of smoke coming out the exhaust.  must be some kinda record?
red is  stock ish bigport.  same good header and exhaust.  stock intake.  same cams!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kpr]

So  I pulled the head off  looking for bendy valves in  cylinder no3.   but all looked good.  guess kinda makes sense the rings are toast in that cylinder will all the smoke. the whole thing was built with worn out old junk and all the bores look horrible.    but need to test more stuff.   so put it back together with a trd head gasket. that had been reused, i lost count how many times.    stock 1.2mm  trd .8mm metal.     some copper coat and back together again

Still smokes like a train as expected.  try not to let it idle so doesn't fill the cylinder with unburnt fuel.. 

seems to have gained about 3kw.  2kw at worst with the trd head gasket

100c run same as above,    120kw on stock cams!

 

 

 

[kpr]

You'll loose bottom end  using big cams and modifying your NA  engine.      Ok i'll take the hit at 1700rpm

 

 

The vvti works amazing on the bigger cams,  nothing like the weak gains on the stock cams. 

Some fixed timing compromises:

Light Pink (salmon?) 25 deg-  pretty much matches the peak power.  but massive hit in midrange
Green 30 deg - kinda blah. may as well run 25 as above ^
Pink  40 deg -  probably good compromise for midrange while not loosing a whole heap of peak.  good if didn't want to rev past 8500.

Bright green vvti - all the power everywhere. actually using  way more range that i thought i would need, about 45 degrees.  I didn't spend very long at all on the vvti map. so some tweaks may get another kw here and there.     and yes it made 138kw!

 

 

 

 

 

[kpr]

More graphs  and loud noises ,    shows better how big the shift in cam timing is

 

[kpr]

So, I'm onto version 2 of the vvti setup.   main difference is the solenoid setup.  the original setup I had the solenoid remote mounted.  as was easier to do it that way and to confirm would all work. 
but ocd couldn't handle all the lines.  more chances of leaks and stuff breaking.   It had 4 lines.  Pressure feed from engine,  drain back to sump  and 2 for advance/retard
New setup eliminates the advance/retard lines.   So just the 1 pressure line (feed from engine) and drain line to sump.   yeah im still using the dipstick tube for the drain, ha.

Solenoid now mounts in the block right by pulley and bolts to the other part.  so all the advance retard ports and wizardry happens  inside the ali blocks.
Doesn't look too out of place. have done a small amount of run time with it. All looking good so far. 

Also moved the cam sensor. before it was hidden  in the spark plug valley.   but getting the clearance right was a pain, since the covers can move around side to side on the studs
Now its on the top at back of cover.

I had a little accident with the bran new genuine timing belt,  so had to get this blue thing to get me going again. 

[kpr]

Can someone tell me if this a normal amount of smoke for a 4age?  seems about right to me?

10200rpm on stock 2nd hand oil pump and 300,000k pistons/rings and crank. seems like the winning combo

 

 

Yeah it really needs to come out.  but want  to put some run time on the vvti setup. 

Had a little play with some shorter intake runners.  looses the peak off the top as expected, if just jam them on. same deal as with fixed timing.    but after tuning the vvti, was able to pretty much match the peak
of the longer runners and gain power after peak.    Holding on real well right out to 10k with the little 193b cams.   Looking good for the end game setup

red is normal intake runner length
dark brown is  40mm shorter   - ignore bump at end of run dyno tends to have a frizz up there at that road speed. 
Both with vvti dialed in.  

 

 

 

[kpr]

Turd engine  is out

Would have liked to run the vvti setup for awhile longer on this engine to prove reliability.   But gearbox issues and time to keep things moving

Gearbox issues being; it wont change gears  at high rpm.  which is rather annoying when engine pulls 10k,  but can only rev it to 7 if want to grab another gear.

Decided to throw some new parts in the t50 to attempt to make it better.

Some parts are no longer available.  but managed to get syncro's and selector sleeves and a few bearings. 

One of the parts no longer available is this bit, the dogs that sit on side of the gear.   also happens to be pretty tired on most gears.  I managed to pinch one out of my pile of parts, that was slightly better for 3rd gear.   The other ones from my parts box (t40) were different design and were welded to the gears. so no go

 

Angle grinder to the rescue.   No idea how well its going to work,  and probably should have set it up in lathe so angles were bang on.  but cant be any worse than being blended like above.   gave both 2nd and 4th bit of a zing like this.   

All back together.   much easier to work on than a w box

 

Also got one of these on the way.  kinda winging it and hoping it will fit with stock style flywheel and pressure plate.  as its from a orc clutch/flywheel combo.
The sprung center in the current one seems fairly heavy.  so this plate should cut down a bit of weight syncros have to deal with

 

 

[kpr]

New clutch plate showed up.   actually fits. feels decent amount  lighter, so should help the cause.   Will have to go to a whole new flywheel and clutch combo to trim anymore weight out here

[kpr]

Good engine back in and running,  think it has a little intake leak.  but other than that all seems well so far, after sitting almost 2 years. 

Have only pushed it back onto dyno rollers and ran it through the gears.  which seems good so far also.   clutch feels pretty much the same, nana as. can take off in 3rd on dyno.

Next need to set the cam timing (was using cam gears on turd, soo all screwed up)   on dyno and probably do a little tuning.    I haven't had current headers on this engine. they were good for a touch more power over the other ones on the turd.  unsure what they will do on this engine.

Then can see if the gearbox wants to play the game.

 

 

[kpr]

Run it up on dyno today,   changes gears revving to 9700pm  so looks like gearbox issue is fixed

The new old engine has gained a touch of power (different headers).   was laying down 152kw pretty consistently when tuning and playing with cam timing.    was  doing the runs at 90degs oil temp so could keep things consistent when setting cam timing.   Then done a run with bit more heat in the oil, as they spit out a bit more power.    155kw with 100c  oil  

green line is good engine.   blue is the turd with vvti.      red is a kinda stock engine with my good headers and exhaust.

I ran though a few cam timing settings, to see what it would do with vvti   (the above graph is done at 5deg inlet advance)       Holding 150kw+ for 2000rpm  will be amazing

 

 

 

video of same thing

 

 

[kpr]

Put some 193hvc kelfold cams in it.  318/304 deg  11mm/10.1mm  lift.      bit of a sack down low and not going to work with my plan.  but good to see theres a bit left in it!
i may have a little play with intake runner lengths to push the tuning up to 9k. see what it will do, before move onto next cam combo

Thats 161.9kw if you cant see it..

 

[kpr]

Tried shortening the intake a touch.  20mm to be exact,  it did some stuff and made a little more peak power as expected. It also liked about  5degrees intake advance without losing peak power, which bumped up the midrange a bit.
probably would make a little bit more peak if made some other changes. but would start hurting the low end / midrange even more.  so im calling it here for the dick swinging number.  166kw uncorrected.

green is after the runner length and cam timing change

I actually took it off the dyno and took it for a spin down the road after this. feels like a weapon in the top end and actually changes gears now!

Have also been testing a few cam combo's to run with vvti.   as the 318 degree HVC intake cam is a little big to be swinging around, due to piston to valve clearance. and the fact that it only works in a smallish window. with duration being so long.  

green line as above with the hvc cams
red is running the new smaller cam combo through a few cam timing settings, to simulate what vvti will do.  
only down 3kw up top and nicely fills the hole at 4500. along with a bit through the midrange and still holding power till  almost 10k.  seems like the winner to me.

 

 

 

[kpr]

Just had something super cool on the dyno,  well if your a 4age foamer at least

Yep an actual formula atlantic 4age. in a formula atlantic car where it should be.    not just some guy with atlantic covers bolted to a stock bluetop
engine originally built by and made 254hp (189kw) on loynings usa engine dyno.   The car even had the original efi setup and ecu from late 80's ! 

 

uncorrected numbers again;   170kw.   so showing about 10-11% drive line loss, compared to engine dyno numbers.  seems about right. 

This is it overlayed onto the kp's dyno graph,  with the HVC cams, same run as the green  in previous post.   only 4-5kw off the peak and 20kw more at 5k,  not bad!

 

 

 

 

[kpr]

race car noises

 

 

[kpr]

Had bit of a setback with making the new vvti parts for this engine.  So have shelved it for a bit, as wanting to get this thing to the os drags. 

soo put the big cams back in.  Tried the big toda 320deg in the intake and the 318deg kelford in the exhaust. it didn't like. no more peak, just lost everywhere else. almost zero usable cam timing adjustment, due to piston to valve clearance. only did a few pulls then swapped the HVC 318/304 set back in.  

Its real sensitive to small changes with 318/304, both cam timing and intake lengths.
Tired a bunch of different intake lengths and cam timing, to attempt to put a peak on the top of the graph, rather than it flat lining.  usually can shuffle the intake tuning to  where it wants to make peak power, so will make even more.  Didn't really want to have it, would result in a dip just before it flat lined or make it fall off earlier.  Almost like its running out of airflow.  but the Atlantic engine does the same thing.  maybe long rpd bottom end will help.
Ended up with intake length only 10mm shorter than what i normally run.

Little bit of a compromise here and there but overall happy with the numbers and shape of graph.  I can pull the dip out at 5500rpm to a point, advancing the inlet, but it loses power up top and piston to valve is pretty spicy.   around the 160kw mark for 1500rpm is pretty good. 

 

was spitting out over 160kw constantly  on  "normal day"   (corrected and uncorrected numbers the same)   with air filter setup on.

 

 

vs stockish  engine for a laugh.  rpm scale bit off