Gaz Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Air/fuel ratio guage or wideband o2 Anyone using either of the above? I need to tune myt car and one of these would come in very handy. Do they make and guages that come with there own calibrated o2 sensors. Who has hook ups on either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE25 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 im using a jaycar 'diy' $20 a/f meter. i has a row of led's that show a/f mixture. is a bit of fiddling round with the soldering iron and wiring but works well and connects to oem O2 sensor. it has a calibration screw to adjust for gain.. probly not a good option for tuning purposes but is great for daily driving and fault finding. ie thats how i found my tps wasn't clicking into idle mode as the ecu was still constantly adjusting mixture as if it was in closed loop mode at idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 I see. Cause its for tuning the carb engine I dont have a AFM to plug into. Did it have the option of coming with its own sensor. Im sure it would be more accurate to be built for the sensor also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 If I go aftermarket computer, do I need to run an o2 sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 When they tune it they will stick a wideband o2 sensor up ya exhaust and tune it like that. So id say not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE25 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 an O2 sensor puts out a voltage when it's hot and theres oxygen present which ranges from 0-1v. im not sure if theres any other variations to this, not sure the difference of 'wide band' etc so there probably is. there are heated O2 sensors that are better as they get hot more quickly when engines started. these usually have 3 or four wires instead of one. on factory ecu the O2 sensor is often used in a 'closed loop' mode which constantly adjusts the air/fuel mix when cruising to get optimum efficiency/economy/emissions whatever. late model cars can use it for checking emissions.. like having one each side of the catalytic converter to see if its working. on after market systems the 02 sensor is used to tune the programmable air/fuel map. either by a self tune where the ecu automatically tries to get optimum air/fuel and saves it into the map... or to tune it manually with a hand controller or laptop by checking the air/fuel mix via the oxy sensor. alot of aftermarket ecu's nowadays tune by a laptop and will have an air/fuel mixture display on the screen. if not then an air/fuel gauge or meter is handy and more readable then trying to do it off a voltmeter hooked up to the oxy sensor lol. can tune a carb this way too.. obviously by driving the car or having it on a rolling road then checking to see if it's running rich or lean and adjusting the jets to suit. you dont 'have' to run an O2 sensor on aftermarket ecu.. but you'll have to tune it by some other means like on a dyno with the exhaust probe up the pipe or borrow the exhaust emissions tester and go for a drive (these are more accurate than an oxy sensor. for best performance you get it tuned by a professional on a dyno. but it pays to try get it close to perfect by self tune (if you know what you're doing that is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Oh yupp. Well I will stick with one then I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eke_zetec_RWD Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I see. Cause its for tuning the carb engine I dont have a AFM to plug into. Did it have the option of coming with its own sensor. Im sure it would be more accurate to be built for the sensor also. o2 senser not afm, sensers are easy to get and mostly exactly the same out put signal, how ever wide band is far far more accurate. worth using a wide band with a data log if pos then you can see where in the rev range under load it needs adjuusting, ie main, primary or secondary and tubes etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 Whoops didnt mean AFM. Yeah thats what I was thinking with the wideband. So will the wideband log a graph if I had a logger? Know where to get these from and/or costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLAWLES Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 dude if you want you can always adapt a comadore o2 sensor into your exhaust and i have a auto meter a/f phantom gauge that i may be willing to sell maybe but that $20 jay car one sounds like a go then just kiwi-fi a sensorinto the zhorst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 I supose I can put any car air flow sensor in. I dont think I will go air/fuel guage now. Price of wideband and sensor is only $400. Still thinking tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE25 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 once investigated buying a new O2 sensor for my old 2tgeu and best price was from partmaster for $100ea. i'd prefer an air/fuel gauge but theres too many thieving scum in this world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 Air/fuel guage isnt half as acurate as wideband plus cant do data logging which is where its at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE25 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 hmm me gonna have to investigate this wideband gadget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 They are what most of the tuner guys use when on dynos I believe. Here is what one guy said to me. Wideband O2 is much better for tuning than Narrowband (what is commonly found in factory cars), narrowband is accurate only around stoichometric (14.7:1) Air Fuel Ratio (AFR), whereas Wideband is accurate from 9:1 through to 25:1. The major benefit we find of using a system like the Innovate LM-1, is that you can log, say against RPM, the AFR, giving you an idea of where in the RPM range it is rich or lean. This is great for tuning both EFI and carburated engines. The Innovate LM-1 can plug into a laptop, however it is also a standalone logging system, which you can then download to your laptop. It can run permanently in your car however in that case we would recommend running the LC-1 and then a Lambda Gauge. To set the LM-1 up is simple, basically just needs power (say from a cigarette lighter plug), and then a bung in your exhaust for the O2 sensor. Once you have tuned with one, you won’t go back! The LM-1 retails for $700, which includes sensor. The LC-1, which has no display, requiring either a laptop or a lambda gauge, retails for $400 including sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE25 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 sounds like you paying $$ for this lm1 lc1 system.. whereas surely a programmable ecu will be able to read a wideband and give you a reading off the laptop screen for tuning purposes? my mate does this with a narrow band just driving round with someone sitting in passenger seat adjusting the map inputs at certain load points. it would be quicker with a data logger for sure but when you dont have $$ to throw around hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Are most o2 sensors genric ie: fit any car? I have my downpipe I took ages to find, with o2 sensor opening on it, and I really don't wanna have to get custom or whatever downpipe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 Most o2 sensors seem to be generic. They operate about 5v from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 sounds like you paying $$ for this lm1 lc1 system.. whereas surely a programmable ecu will be able to read a wideband and give you a reading off the laptop screen for tuning purposes? my mate does this with a narrow band just driving round with someone sitting in passenger seat adjusting the map inputs at certain load points. it would be quicker with a data logger for sure but when you dont have $$ to throw around hmmm Perhaps. Except I have two cars I want to use this to tune. 1. 2l carb engine (which has no ECU to work with) 2. Ca18det whick I want to use this wideband to remap the standard ECU. So I supose $400 plus I have a laptop is not much to pay to tune two cars. If I was to pay for a tune on the 2l carb alone thatd be $400. Probs will end up with a link or like on the ca18 eventually but It would be good to be able to semi tune a new turbo etc on it. Is a narrow band just an air fuel ration guage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE25 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 i was referring to the 0-1v oxy sensor as a narrow band (whether or not thats the correct name i dunno). but all the 80's toyota's that i've checked run the 1v output type oxy sensor.. ie 4age 2tgeu 3tgte. there are different bolt patterns so no they're not generic in size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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