Guest Demonmk2 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 is it jsut me or does the 1600 crossflow engines not like high rev's? if so wouldnt the supercharger be more effeicent on the engine or a very small turbo? well your not really gonan stick a massive turbo on a push rod engine are ya :S supercharger would be quicker off the mark right? but the turbo would slowly catch up after a few rev's? id also like the info bout the 1600 crossflow blower mady you could post it in the article section? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerm Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 It's just you! .... Xflows LOVE revs... even my sport revs to a good 6000rpm totally standard and i havn't even touched the engine since i got it of an old d ude whos had it for 15 years... So probably hasn't been tuned for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draizuh Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 the Super charger off a 4AGZE should be perfect for a Xflow. even tho the 4AGE has more power than a Xflow its still a 1600 Engine. if i was gonna S/Charge a Eskie id replace the came and probably some Forged Pistons too. if your going to that much trouble may aswell port n Polish and replace valve's n shit too... Gotta remember the Xflows are atleast 40 years old. its really a miracle they are still going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidian Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 a miracle. no no its called rebuild hahaha but nah theyre the shit for what and how old they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 ...or a 2ltr dohc out of a seirra sapphire and then turboing that ??? , but ive heard those motor have like none aftermarket part though , If you mean the Sappihre Cosworth 2L then for sure! But if you mean that other DOHC 2L then no.. those motors are a peice of shit and couldn't handle being turboed. Especially with the lack of parts to make it stronger. Never heard of anyone using a Telstar engine.. I don't think they're particularly strong either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 .. would centrifugals be the only viable choice or would the likes of a 4/71 be ok? any info would be great I'd never run a centrifugal blower becaused they seem to be the worst of a turbo (lag) combined with the worst of a blower (parasitic losses) http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/a ... e-faq.html eddiew: Postive displacment blowers pump a fixed volume per rpm so the boost will peak and flatten out. So not all SC's will make more boost per rpm My mates supercharged pinto: http://www.retrotech.co.nz/rides/mk1cap ... i/dyno.jpg see how flat it was at 2600 rpms if the blower boost was increasing the torque would be increasing..... but it's not why because the boost is level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I knew I had one around somewhere. Took a while to find though.. found a turboed Gem maybe Zep would be interested in. Anyway, here's a turbo Xflow. Its been bored to 1650cc's. Cross drilled crank and shot peened conrods. (this doesn't mean much) Modified sump for 4.5L capacity. High flow oil pump. 35/75 turbo Kent cam with .410 lift. Extensively worked head wit huge ports and 42mm intake and 33mm SS exhaust valves. Double valve springs and O-ringed block. It's a TO3 Garret, Haltech efi with a modifed Toyota manifold, 14psi and a 6:1 compression ratio. This = 700ft/lbs rearwheel torque @ 4,000rpm. and 160bhp at 5,000rpm. (they say bhp, by defination this is at the flywheel. Which is odd because their torque is measured at the wheels... I'm guessing it's at the wheels. Theres some confusion here I've just found 2 contrasting definitions) Its sort of similar setup to my pinto. I make 726ft/lbs @ 3800rpm and 230+bhp @ 4500rpm. (180hp@wheels) As usual the pinto makes more power but the Xflow is a bit lighter so there you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eddie W Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Hi jerm and atropine, I wont go into details now 'cause it's getting late but I will do a post for you in more detail later. We used aircraft cabin blowers in my day but nowadays I'd look to the blower off a 4AGZE. Thats what I'm going to look at for my Alfa. I know that there are some charectaristics that will need to be modded when I get into it but it will I hope be the basis. No a 4/71 would be way too big, more like for a 3-4 ltre up. Questions like suck through verses blow through to be decided. Suck through is simpler but you can't use an intercooler so your boost would have to be less etc. Regards Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Demonmk2 Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 are you able to post a thing on here explaining the 2 types of induction types for the turbo like suck and blow through etc sombody might b able to read it later on and that 1600 turbo would proably cost to much to do wouldnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Demonmk2: have a look here. It's a very simple overview but shows you the diff: http://www.giant.net.au/users/wight/turbo_setups.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Demonmk2 Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 thanks! it states here in a way turboing a engine like mine (1600 xflow) is easier to turbo than a modern engine i just cant have an intercooler and they can run higher boost right? so really turboing my engine isnt as hard as it sounds if i have the right people and parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Demonmk2 Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 wouldnt it be better to use a non-pushrod engine for turbo setup? as really they are just an addition that doesnt really help anything compared to a non-pushrod engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eddie W Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Tech, thats a non xflow by the look of it ( inlet on the other side and 1650 was a size you got with 85mm bore on a 1500) I've never seen a rootes type blower(or any blower) where the boost didn't increase with the revs. I've been involved with six different installations in the past. Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eddie W Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Tech, I had a look at those dyno graphs and I don't quite understand them. Flat torque curves are common with boosted motors but why do the power readings stop at 3900. If thats where the power peaks then something is seriously wrong with the setup. It would suggest to me at first sight that the blower wasn't big enough. I once got asked by a performance garage why a supercharged BDA Escort stockcar wasn't producing boost and the expected gains. I concluded that the blower they were using was too small and supplied them with a 2&1/4 to one step up gearing and the car went from the back of the field to the front. The guys that were doing the preperation knew what they were doing generally but had no experience of blowers. Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Demonmk2 Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Tech, thats a non xflow by the look of it ( inlet on the other side and 1650 was a size you got with 85mm bore on a 1500) um looks like a Xflow to me. Exhaust on the right inlet on the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Tech, I had a look at those dyno graphs and I don't quite understand them. Flat torque curves are common with boosted motors but why do the power readings stop at 3900. If thats where the power peaks then something is seriously wrong with the setup. It would suggest to me at first sight that the blower wasn't big enough. I once got asked by a performance garage why a supercharged BDA Escort stockcar wasn't producing boost and the expected gains. I concluded that the blower they were using was too small and supplied them with a 2&1/4 to one step up gearing and the car went from the back of the field to the front. The guys that were doing the preperation knew what they were doing generally but had no experience of blowers.Eddie Flat torque curves common with boosted engines??? only with SC's... Turbos produce huge spiking torque curves. Thats my friends old supercharged pinto. The reason why it stops at 3900rpm is becuse he didn't want to take it over 4000rpm in tuning due to it being a stock pinto with 180,000K's on the clock. But it pulled up to 6,000rpm and held 6psi constant. There was nothing wrong with the setup. The blower was a 2Lt rated supercharger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Demonmk2 Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eddie W Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Tech, sorry youre right ,I just took that strange exhaust as an inlet . Didn't look close enough. Still 1650 is an unusual size in a xflow. Try an Evo for a fairly constant torque once the turbo is on boost. I can't agree about the constant boost with a supercharger. My friends Anglia peaked at 12lbs boost and was progressive all the way through, my 1650 peaked at 17lbs and was progressive all the way through, my friends Valiant Ap5 peaked at 13lbs and was progressive all the way through, a friends MG tf peaked at 7lbs boost and was progressive etc etc. I can only go by what I've had first hand experience of. I ran the flat boost concept past my friend Glen who owned both the Anglia and the Valiant and has been involved in a few others and he has never seen a flat boost. In spite of the pinto's charger being "suitable" for a 2 litre I would still feel that those charectaristics indicate a blower that can't keep up. Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Demonmk2 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 sweet thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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