shrike Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 After looking around the net and discovering not a whole heap of info in the same place thought I would start this as a placeholder. Both for myself and for anyone looking at using this drive-train going forward as these cars get older Few write ups on what to use in the US but not really much for Australia/New Zealand Ozhonda seems to be dead, and NZhonda doesn't have much activity either and its hard to search I started looking into this as I am wanting to drop a K24A3 into my AE111, and with my E series AWD gearbox (wide gears) potentially not an option (TBC) as the transfer case may be too big I started looking into the CRV drivetrain There are kits for DSG conversion etc as well but I am specifically going to be talking about Manual gearboxes Ok so tech dump All the K series fitted cars manual gear boxes the gears etc seem to be interchangeable, the AWD diff is the main difference as it has the Transfer gear on it There is also guides on how to convert the 5speed to a 6speed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VR-zCT0I54) FWD LSD can be used if spaced and Transfer gear is added, but specific AWD LSD's can be brought Factory gearboxes are meant to be 400-600hp capable but start to break at that power, there is upgraded gearset/syncro/hubsliders etc options to do 800hp and then dog box options above that Lots of Billet options too CRV shafts and CVs are small so may need upgrading as well Transfer gear ratios are 0.434 for the Manual and 0.393 for the Auto, the transfer case is the same between the two (transfer gear on the diff is the same between auto and manual, difference is the gear it connects too in the transfer case I had to look up the part numbers to confirm this) Factory CRV rear diff is 2.529 Ratio (USA) for reference the rear GT4 Celica (7.1" or 6.7" T series?) diff is 2.928 Below info, note this is USA sourced info and the CRV final drive is conflicting to other sources I need to find out what the OZ/NZ rear diffs and gearbox final drive ratios are so will update once I know, I would say New Zealand ratios would be JDM cars but will look for NZ delivered details Edit Australian Ratios 2007 CRV (http://m.australiancar.reviews/_pdfs/Honda_CRV_RE4_Specifications_200702.pdf) 2011 is listed as the same Manual Transmission Synchronised 6-Speed Forward - 1 Reverse Gear Ratios 1st 3.642 2nd 1.88 3rd 1.212 4th 0.972 5th 0.78 6th 0.659 Reverse 3.583 Final Reduction Ratio 5.333 The Factory CRV is not all time AWD and doesn't have a center diff, it runs a viscous coupling, the factory one has overheating issues if run all the time and is designed for an 80/20 power split Note the GT4 Celica uses a center diff in the transfer case that is viscous but is designed for a 50/50 spilt The Rear CRV diff is not designed to be run all the time and mods (pinning) are required to make it reliable, you can get different viscous couplings to change how it runs or remove it and run AWD all the time. The viscous coupling helps to manage the different wheel speed between the front and the rear The issue with running it all the time is the front and rear ratios don't match and as its not a proper diff will cause binding (there are kits to swap phantom diffs etc in) but typically the best bet is to swap to a real LSD type diff Final Drive Transfer Gear Transfer Ratio Rear Diff Ratio Difference 4.389 0.434 0.904 2.529 4.355 0.0342 4.562 0.434 0.904 2.529 4.526 0.0355 4.764 0.434 0.904 2.529 4.727 0.0371 5.062 0.434 0.904 2.529 5.023 0.0394 Some people adjust tyres etc to fix this, or just live with it, if I wanted to use my GT4 rear diff I could either get a new rear diff ratio (Crown/Pinon) made at a ratio that lines everything up or a new Transfer gear made at the correct ratio (0.3778) or I could get my mounts remade and go to different drive shafts etc Using an Auto Transfer Gear in a manual gearbox would make it worse Final Drive Transfer Gear Transfer Ratio Rear Diff Ratio Difference 4.389 0.393 0.904 2.529 3.943 0.4456 4.562 0.393 0.904 2.529 4.099 0.4631 4.764 0.393 0.904 2.529 4.280 0.4836 5.062 0.393 0.904 2.529 4.548 0.5139 Using the GT4 Rear diff ratio is horrible Auto Transfer Final Drive Transfer Gear Transfer Ratio Rear Diff Ratio Difference 4.389 0.393 0.904 2.928 4.566 0.1766 4.562 0.393 0.904 2.928 4.746 0.1836 4.764 0.393 0.904 2.928 4.956 0.1917 5.062 0.393 0.904 2.928 5.266 0.2037 Manual Final Drive Transfer Gear Transfer Ratio Rear Diff Ratio Difference 4.389 0.434 0.904 2.928 5.042 0.6529 4.562 0.434 0.904 2.928 5.241 0.6786 4.764 0.434 0.904 2.928 5.473 0.7087 5.062 0.434 0.904 2.928 5.815 0.7530 Custom Transfer case Gear (or get a custom rear diff ratio of 2.549) Final Drive Transfer Gear Transfer Ratio Rear Diff Ratio Difference 4.389 0.3778 0.904 2.928 4.389 0.0000 4.562 0.3778 0.904 2.928 4.562 0.0000 4.764 0.3778 0.904 2.928 4.764 0.0000 5.062 0.3778 0.904 2.928 5.062 0.0000 Diffs with factory ratio to match the CRV are 2002 Jag X type Dana 35 BMW 2.56" 2014 Kia Sorento 2.0 (but has electric valve) Feel free to add anything if anyone has any more knowledge Good video on K series box rebuild for 800hp https://youtu.be/ABcZQhperYQ?si=DROL4nfoHEFEFczC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin'joe Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 same set-up as GT4, but different ratios are the 2 versions of 4WD carib. need Raghead to join up as he obsessed, but 1600 and 1800 are different, unsure if transfer ratios the same. pre-ABS models have lockable centre/transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrike Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 32 minutes ago, smokin'joe said: same set-up as GT4, but different ratios are the 2 versions of 4WD carib. need Raghead to join up as he obsessed, but 1600 and 1800 are different, unsure if transfer ratios the same. pre-ABS models have lockable centre/transfer. The Ae115 Carib Has an E50F gearbox (also wide gears) I have one in my spares :p don't know if rear diff (also have one) is a different ratio or if the transfer case setup is different etc AWD Caldina had a similar but updated box, you can also use the MR2 Turbo E153 to mix and match parts there is an E153 adapter kit to K series motors 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARDRB Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Have a look here https://www.woodsport.org/forum/forum.php Paul Woods from Woodsport pioneered the 2gr MR2 swap I believe. He built a 2gr AWD first gen Rav4. I seem to recall him using a smaller transfer case from a later model Rav4 due to it being smaller than the GT4 one. Also google 2gr Alltrac, the US Celica guys have done it a couple of times which may help with finding bits that give more clearance. It was Hux racing that told me the Toyota transfer wouldn't fit with the K24 block. It was a comment on one of his Facebook posts somewhere I believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrike Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 42 minutes ago, GARDRB said: Have a look here https://www.woodsport.org/forum/forum.php Paul Woods from Woodsport pioneered the 2gr MR2 swap I believe. He built a 2gr AWD first gen Rav4. I seem to recall him using a smaller transfer case from a later model Rav4 due to it being smaller than the GT4 one. Also google 2gr Alltrac, the US Celica guys have done it a couple of times which may help with finding bits that give more clearance. It was Hux racing that told me the Toyota transfer wouldn't fit with the K24 block. It was a comment on one of his Facebook posts somewhere I believe. Found some comments, the Alltrac (GT4) box won't work with the Rav/highlander (Kluger) transfercase so id need to possibly use a Rav box, Rav boxes are narrow gear e series and if I need to do another box I may as well go for a Honda setup "Unfortunately the alltrac box cant be utilised directly due to a number of major differences compared to the rav4 box. The biggest headache with using the alltrac box will be the drive arrangements from it into the highlander/lexusrx3300/rav4 type transfercase, unfortunately theyre incompatible. The alltrac has a castellated locking sleeve used to engage the diff-locking function on earlier pneumatic actuators thats locked out by a bolt and a quadrant type fitting. The Sleeve is a different diameter, different length and a different number of splines. Ive got some video i took when i had the alltrac and ravboxes apart that clearly show the differences plus multiple photos. In addition, you cant use the alltrac right hand driveshaft due to its construction being totally different to the rav4's, you have to use the ravs or the highlanders. Other problems; The oil feed for the outboard support bearing isnt even half close to its opposite number on the rav; The highlander transfer wont bolt up to the alltrac box directly due to major differences with the stud locations; and the aforementioned differences with driving arrangements. Basically it all adds up to a big fat headache." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARDRB Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 The CRV with Landrover Discovery viscous to pinned CRV diff setup seems to be capable of 7s in a civic, but then they are all cars that would run 8s without the rear assist probably. It's all pointing to the 2AR/2AZ being a better option in a Toyota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrike Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 26 minutes ago, GARDRB said: The CRV with Landrover Discovery viscous to pinned CRV diff setup seems to be capable of 7s in a civic, but then they are all cars that would run 8s without the rear assist probably. It's all pointing to the 2AR/2AZ being a better option in a Toyota Yeah I am more looking at track work then just drag strip and a pinned rear diff doesnt appeal to me :p, but yes the Landrover viscous is a good work around I'd rather get a custom gear or redo my rear diff mount for a proper 1.5/2way diff etc Might need to look into 2AR/AZ again but pretty sure the K motor was better option in stock form, oh the joys of oddball builds haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARDRB Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 St215 3sgte with all the bits you already have, and drive it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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