Roman

Also, something has been boggling my mind a bit. Lets say you have two 2500cc engines, one is 4cyl and one is 6 cyl. Lets say they are both doing 6000rpm and both have 100% VE at full throttle. Does the v6 make more power because its breathing more air in, because its got more cyls and more valves? No, because they have exactly the same amount of airflow going into the engine. As displacement is the same and VE is the same. The V6 just cuts the pie into more slices. So what's the point then? Well, hopefully with a V6 at high rpm the VE number can stay higher as rpm goes up, as there's more valve area. So for example a K24 motor has a 36mm valve with a 5mm stem, a total valve area of 7984mm2 with its 8 intake valves. A 4GR has only a 32mm intake valve, and assuming 5mm stem as well. On total area it wins by 17% with a total valve area of 9408mm2 with its 12 intake valves. So hopefully the idea is that when the 4 cyl motor's valve area starts becoming insufficient towards higher rpm and VE drops off, the V6 still has enough valve area to keep flowing well. I'm really pinning all my hopes and dreams on this motors ability to rev really high, as it's the only real upside to this big chonka. It's still possible that there's some fundamental reason why it wont be able to. Like maybe the crank will break or the oil pump will explode or whatever. Also, I am very cautiously making comparisons to a K24 because it's unlikely that it will make power as good as a K motor setup will. But, forgetting the power figure. What if it does rev well and everything's okay, and its absolutely massively awesome? How good! That daydream is alluring haha.

My trick for drawing from a scaled picture worked out really well! It's not perfect, but drawing from measurements alone it would usually take me a few iterations to get this far. So I decided I'd try the same trick for getting some measurements and shape from the beams 3sge oilpan which I'm planning to use. So as mentioned earlier, taking a photo from far back and zooming in, and trying to get as square on as possible minimizes distortion and gives a more accurate image to work from. Then I added that shape and measurement to the model I'm just printing the front part of the flange that fits to the motor, to see if it's all looking good. Then I'll print a bottom front part and see if everything's sweet, and if it's possible to do up all the bolts. Then go from there.

Must have been heart breaking to see that spray on the seats. Stoked that the insurance came through on that!

Hey @Hemi, It doesnt do that stuff automatically. What I did prior to the start of that video, is that I found an image that was nice and "flat" as in, had minimal perspective distortion. If you are standing really close to something when you take a photo, the center part of the image is closer to the camera than the edges, and you're viewing everything less parallel. So you get distortion of sizes. Fish eye lense is an extreme example. If you stand further back and zoom in, then you get everything propertioned more correctly as this effect is minimized. So, thanks to the random internet photographer person who took those nice photos of a 4GR block, I had a good image to work from. So once you've got a nice photo, you need to import it into the program and then tell it how big it is. So normally you pick between two known points, and enter a dimension - then it will rescale the image to that distance.

I put together a quick(ish) silent film showing my methods for designing and 3d printing manifolds. Maybe helpful for someone trying to prototype something. Basically, if you know how to use lofts and fillets you're golden haha.

This is not from his engine, but from a Toyota VVTI setup. Can generally stay on target within 0.1-0.2 degrees, but needs to catch up on fast transients - cant do much about mechanical latency. But the Link PID works well, there is a compensation table for oil viscosity when oil is cold.

I'd be happy to try one if I could find one! Strength issues, dunno. Will have to see if that's an issue, although I'm not sure how it would present itself.

Yeah will do it how the factory pans do, will just cut a groove then use sealant. Will have o-rings on the interface to the oil filter in/out lines. (again as per factory fit)

If the above is hard to visualize (makes sense in my head) First plate that bolts to the motor will look sorta like this Second plate / main sump part will end up looking something like this

something like this

First plate that bolts to the motor looks sorta like this (get router to do the complex bits) Then the second plate has simple walls, only 6 flat sides and all of the oil drains are inside.

The front sump might be good, but likely too deep for how low I'd like to sit the engine. Also, I cant find one anywhere. That one above isnt necessarily any less complex, how do the bolts do up that are located above the oil pan? on left and right sides. Must have a tube that goes all the way through and uses a long bolt from underneath. As they cant do up anything with the pan off, because the pan bolts are on the top. hah. @ajg193 The oil drain back channels are a "may as well" thing, secondary to being able to get some straight walls on the sides of the sump. It's not actually all that complicated, will seem a lot simpler when I've put a cad model together and you can see better what I'm thinking.

Sump situation. So the rear sump is definitely not staying. With some discussion with @Stu we have decided that fabricating a full sump is likely the way to go - So my job is to draw something up so then he can do the hard part! So for starters here are all of the critical areas that the sump's function needs to accomodate: Oil pickup tube We just need a new tube that will run to where ever the new oil pan location is (at the front) Oil filter in/out I am thinking I will have some tapped threads so we can run some AN lines here to a remote filter, which makes adding provisions for an oil cooler easy in the future (if necessary) Oil drains from the head These are very important not to block up! As other wise the heads will fill up with oil and the sump oil level can drop low. These are the trickiest part of making a new sump, as they weave in and out of the factory bolt holes. Meaning it's hard to use a straight piece of alloy to form the walls anywhere. Current idea Untangling the oil drains from the bolt holes is what needs to happen. So I think the simplest way to do this is with two pieces of plate. The first plate bolts on using standard holes, then has some tapped threads in it for the second plate to bolt onto, from the new perimeter of the sump. So all of the old bolt holes will end up inside the sump, but I can have oil drain channels for the heads which keep the effective width of the sump potentially narrower than the factory one for oil that drains back down from oil squirters, bores etc.

No problem at all, interesting to learn new things. Never new the 1GR was so expensive!

Yeah for sure, I'll do that. Edit: Done. Yeah the 2GR is something I'd considered a long time ago, but dismissed because they cant really rev much beyond 7500 or 8000rpm. Also, they cost fucking moonbeams which isnt a great starting package when intending to do some aahhh... exploratory rpm based research. $600-800 replacement block for 4GR from a much more common Mark X that is an unloved engine by comparison. That also meets my rpm goals. sweet deal! This option totally flew under the radar!

No concrete plan yet, but yeah probably remake one.

Yes I've got a fire lit under my arse right now. Starting this time next month I've got double mortgage to pay, which is going to mean 2 min noodle spec life budget until my other house sells. And heaps to do to move house and tidy up old place. When I move house, I'll have no garage anymore until a new one gets built. So this needs to go into storage where I'm not sure if I'll have any meaningful access or ability to make any progress. So if I can at least get the engine mounted and confirm that there are no deal breaker issues. Then for my time with no shed / car access, I can at least carry on scheming and saving for some parts etc with the end goal in mind. Also I can work on some of the "free" stuff using materials I've already got. Like wiring it up. I've only got a few weeks to get as much done as possible to mount the motor and decide if it's staying in the car. No motivation like a deadline, right? Mounts are in progress but I'll probably need to try get this finished next week.

Yeah the difference though is that a 4GR is a $650 engine and a 2GR is a $4000 engine as best I can tell. I've got a scheme for the sump. Should be sweet.

With the sump off everything's a piece of cake! Just slides in from the front, easy as. I can still push the motor a fair bit back , should be able to get the centerline of the first cylinder fairly close to being in line with the struts. (on this bank at least) So that should help the weight distribution a bit. So, that's good news. There's also some fairly decent looking clearance to the bonnet line as well. There's a decent amount of room for a front bowl type oil pan on the front. So will make some engine mounts, get it in the right place then start drawing up a sump.

Disregarding gearbox issues for the moment. Because there's no point fretting over fitting a gearbox, if the motor wont fit anyway. I moved the car and got the old motor out, and did a test fit. Did some chop chop of the firewall after this photo to make one of the banks fit. But then with a gearbox on it's basically impossible to get the motor in because of the rear sump. It cant get past the engine mounts or the steering column, which is a pain. So I batted with it for ages, ended up cutting engine mounts off, dropping steering rack, then even dropping the crossmember to see if I could get it to fit that way. But still not working. As the gearbox wants to hit into the tapered part of the tunnel before the motor is far enough back for the oil filter thingy to clear the swaybar, and the sump to fit behind the crossmember. It just wont fit. So finished the day thinking it's probably a bit too big to work. But, after some sleep and thinking about it. I dont have an engine problem, I've got a sump problem. It's the stupid rear sump that is tripping me up, not the rest of it. So rather than chopping more tunnel and firewall I'm gonna take the sump off then see how we are looking. Chopping and changing to a front sump is probably going to be the way to go. Thankfully this motor is really designed with a front sump in mind anyway. The 2GR motor has the sump at the front, but doesnt necessarily fit this engine - and it wont necessarily clear anything anyway. This is what the sump currently looks like. Is there a Briscoes sale on sumps? Because there's about to be 50% off

Rear sump is the current headache. The sump cant get past the steering column. So, I dropped the rack down. Cant get past engine mounts. so chopped those off. Cant sit far enough back so chopped part of the firewall so one of the banks could sit further back. The bellhousing hits the tunnel before the motor is far enough back to drop down past the steering rack. Even when I dropped the crossmember and rack, I still cant get it to fit. " I tried the Hyperblade trick of flipping the crossmember around, but the bolts for the crossmember arent on the centreline of the lower arms, so it doesnt work. It might work if I chop some of the tunnel out, where it's hitting the gearbox. But its not going to be an easy motor to get in and out. If I do persist with chopping more stuff out, it does look like it will sit fairly decently low and fair back though. Good room for intake activites. Exhaust manifolds should have plenty of room, dont think the steering column will make life too difficult. But that's enough for one day.

Yeah i guess it shouldnt be such a surprise that its huge, the whole reason this motor has a rod/stroke etc that is appealing is because small displacement in a stupidly big block. At this point ive got nothing to lose by giving it a test fit in the engine bay, with a gearbox sorta bolted on. But id be interested to get it on the scales. Back of the wagon sunk a whole lot when the forklift lowered it in... For some reason the listed service weight of the 2500cc motor is 20kg heavier than 3500cc motor. But that might be because of some of the random extra bits that arent relevant to this. If it looks like I need to chop up the engine bay to make it fit. Maybe I should test the concept in a Mark x first,to be sure its worth it.

Got this home and stripped a bunch of junk off it. And jesus jibbly christ it is MONSTROUS. Here is a 1NZ cam cover compared to 4GR to show size. I thought being a V6 it would be a fair bit shorter than beams motor. But looks like it might be even longer. To be fair a lot of the front of the motor is just empty spacing holding the timing chain etc, so the centre of mass is further back than it visually appears. However there are some other issues. My engine bay tips in at the middle a bit to accomodate the motor sitting back. But it does not do this where you need to fit a Vee motor. So to get this in a position that will fit the rear sump, it looks like it'll need to choppy chop heaps of this out. Which is even more troublesome on the other side, as that's where the brake booster etc wants to live. If I try put the motor further forward instead, I dont think the rear mount sump is going to fit past the crossmember. The whole motor is just way way bigger than I was anticipating hahaha. Here's a pic of the 3S bellhousing placed up against the motor. Here's a summary of my findings The 2GR pattern must be different to 4GR. Yeah so at this stage, pretty disheartened. This thing is honestly monstrous and feels really heavy too. I dont want to have to chop a massive amount of my car out to make it fit. The difference in overall size from 2 litre beams motor, to 2.5 motor for this is insane. I guess that makes sense when considering the block size is essentially for a 3.5 litre motor instead. What to do from here? Dunno. Need some time to think about it. Not so confident it's the right choice anymore. However I think I'll at least try get it sitting in the engine bay and see how it looks. If it can physically fit okay, will perhaps try persist with solving the other issues. But I dont think I'm gonna "hand drill engine block" my way out of this one.

Dunno, does 1UZ and 1MZ have the same PCD? I think I'm going to need to keep the geometry of the Altezza flywheel in order to make everything work with least potential hassle. Have been looking into the idea of using CNC machine to redrill the flywheel bolts on the Toda altezza flywheel I've got. 3S PCD is 70mm, 4GR is 85mm. Which from the front looks like it would work. But on the back face of the light flywheel it's only got a 90mm mounting surface. It could potentially "work" but not keen to buzzsaw my legs off at high rpm if I can help it.

Will hopefully get back to Dad's soarer at some point. But it's hard to help out when it's a few hours drive away now. That should be decently grunty.