Guest WESTCORT Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Ok so after a week of playin with the engine to find out why it wont run properly, ive pretty much nailed it down to the cam timing. Its a modified cam but ive set it up as per haynes manual for a standard cam, and have been told that modified cams need to be timed differently. here are its specs: inlet exhaust camlift: .282" .280" valve lift: .451" .448" duration at .050" camlift: 239* 239* (equates to about 290 normal duration) lobe centreline (max lift) 105*atdc 111*btdc lobe seperation: 108* cam timing at .050" camlift: In. O. 14.5* btdc, In. C. 44.5* abdc, Ex. O. 50.5* bbdc, Ex. C. 8.5* atdc this is all the info im given on the cam sheet. its a kelford grind called A109-8 or something. I understand what most of this means but in relation to using it to time the cam properly i am lost. anyone got any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 here are its specs: inlet exhaust camlift: .282" .280" valve lift: .451" .448" duration at .050" camlift: 239* 239* (equates to about 290 normal duration) lobe centreline (max lift) 105*atdc 111*btdc lobe seperation: 108* cam timing at .050" camlift: In. O. 14.5* btdc, In. C. 44.5* abdc, Ex. O. 50.5* bbdc, Ex. C. 8.5* atdc this is all the info im given on the cam sheet. its a kelford grind called A109-8 or something. I understand what most of this means but in relation to using it to time the cam properly i am lost. anyone got any ideas? Pull rocker cover off. Turn untill #1 inlet (front one) just starts to open as measured with a dial gauge. Then turn the crank to 14.5 BTDC. Put belt on, tension it up, check nothing has moved = DONE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WESTCORT Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 ok so ive done this, cam moved probly 25 degrees, but didnt get a chance to start it today because my starter motor now died lol, just clicks as if its stuck in, tried hammering it, rocking it in gear, everythin so will swap to another 1 i got tomorrow and start it to see what happens. 20ish degrees is alot for the cam to be out so im hoping this solves my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 sounds like a flat battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholdowa Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 here are its specs: inlet exhaust camlift: .282" .280" valve lift: .451" .448" duration at .050" camlift: 239* 239* (equates to about 290 normal duration) lobe centreline (max lift) 105*atdc 111*btdc lobe seperation: 108* cam timing at .050" camlift: In. O. 14.5* btdc, In. C. 44.5* abdc, Ex. O. 50.5* bbdc, Ex. C. 8.5* atdc this is all the info im given on the cam sheet. its a kelford grind called A109-8 or something. I understand what most of this means but in relation to using it to time the cam properly i am lost. anyone got any ideas? Pull rocker cover off. Turn untill #1 inlet (front one) just starts to open as measured with a dial gauge. Then turn the crank to 14.5 BTDC. Put belt on, tension it up, check nothing has moved = DONE Hang on. The spec says 50 thou lift at 14.5 deg btdc. Shouldn't you be measuring from that point, not the point of opening?? Either way, I'd cross check with something else easy to measure like exhaust closing 8.5 deg atdc, just to take any variance in the clearances. Either way, as long as the valves don't hit the piston, then it'll idle to some extent. Ignition timing makes way more difference - do that by ear or set to 10 degrees static to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WESTCORT Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 yea good point. might have to double check that tomorrow. and battery isnt flat cause it started fine twice before hand, then when i went to start it like 15 seconds after it had been running it just died. will check wires on it tomorrow aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Let's hope the starter isn't not turning because a valve is now imbedded in a piston . Having said that I think Pintos are non-interference engines so perhaps that is not possible I don't dial in my own camshafts so I won't give any advice except to trun the motor over by hand again before you try the starter motor - just incase. Regards, UJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 ^^ was thinking same thing earlier but it should be fine. Pintos can have the valve hit the piston too. I.e, Not valvesafe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Oh dear - let's hope for a failed battery then - but normally when something stops working it is because of the thing you did to the car last.......... Good luck #1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Hrmm you have a good point there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Pretty sure pintos are a non interference engine, that is if you havent shaved the head a lot probably. I broke down last year with a few teeth ripped off my cambelt due to oil etc on it, engine was fine when I replaced the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholdowa Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Pretty sure you were very lucky. They're definitely not when you've got group 1 valves and cam - I'm sure the combustion chamber was still comfortably over 50cc as well. They do run sort of ok with lightly bent valves, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Yuh. Some of the real hardout engines have pistons machined to let valves in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 doubt i was lucky to have the valves stop at the exact right place, i raped the shit out of the starter motor trying to get it to start unknowly that the cam wasnt turning, so if any valves were open they would have been pwnt real quick over and over. everyone ive heard it from says they arent an interference engine, you guys are the first ive heard of it maybe there is damage that i dont know about, this engines been raped by teenage boys for the last 6 years its been in the family, the heads never come off either, still goes hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WESTCORT Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 yea starter was jammed, knew straight away cause id ALWAYS turn engine over by hand before i try and start it. the head is too good for me to not double and triple check lol. chucked a new starter in and turned it over, didnt fire. So going to buy an adjustable cam wheel tomorrow and get a dgi gauge from work so i can set it exact. the saga continues... although on another weird note, when it didnt fire i chucked a timing light over a lead to make sure i had spark, sometimes i did and sometimes i didnt, so will have to double check everything electrical tomorrow aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Shit you got endless trouble. The cam gear is used for fine tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Westcort - Turning the motor over on the starter motor usually gives you a fairly random pulse on the timing light in my limited expeirence. The pluse is usually around about where you want it on the degree wheel but half the time it just isn't there at all. Having only just cruised into this thread I am now wondering why you think your cam timing is out. Can timing too far in one direction will simply move your power in the rev range - as you have not been able to drive the car yet you probably do not know what it runs like. Letting a new engine idle for more that the absolute minumum time is not the best idea as the rings don't get a chance to bed in. If you can stand the agony of waiting it might be a good idea to get the exhaust system on the car and get it driveable - then start messing with it and find all your vacuum leaks etc . Good luck mate - there is not much quite as satisfying as building your own car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismo.capri Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Yuh. Some of the real hardout engines have pistons machined to let valves in. From memory no roadable cam will have enough lift to hit the piston. I know the standard one wont and I also know the grind I'm running wont and it's the most lift that can run with the standard valve springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 There ya go then. I checked anyway. Cant hurt. I always thought they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WESTCORT Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 ok so i chucked my new vernier pulley on today and used a dgi gauge to time it exact. 14.5 degrees at 50thou lift. reset the timing a few times after it wouldnt start and bang. i think i finally got it sussed. will take it for a spin in the morning and see how it goes. pretty sure its all good now cause i can finally hear the cam when its close to idle, didnt get a chance to bring it up to temp yet but will in the morning. oh and all up i probly havent had it idling more than 15 mins. so if its sweet to drive tomorrow ill take it for a no exhaust cruise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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