Roman

I initially thought they wanted to usr the v8 spec to get a wider bore spacing, to fit a bigger bore and shorter stroke.

But was surprised to read it actually pushed the cyls a lot closer together.

But makes sense. The motor had to hang way in front of the axle line because of the 4wd system. 

It would have sledged like a bastard if it was a heavy engine.

Im lucky to be able to fit a fair chunk of the weight behind the front axle line.

Some off topic V6 sharns. 

Looking at history of the Alfa 155 DTM motor. 
The rules said they needed the bore spacing and bore centerline of a factory built engine.
Originally they had to stick with the spec from factory motor which was 60 degree bank V6 busso engine. So this is how it was for the first few years.
This was a problem because the spacing and vee angle means the V6 has one crank journal per conrod, and counterweights for each rod.
They wanted something lighter and more compact. 
So later they bent the rules to say that they were using bore size and spacing of one of the 90 degree vee V8 engines.

I have been scratching my head as to why they wanted a 90 degree vee.
Turns out the benefit was that they could fit two conrods on a single crank journal.
So the bore offset between left and right banks is reduced.
The crank weighs a lot less with simpler counterweights.
Then the block and everything else weighs less as it's more compact. 
Which is part of how they made it 50kg lighter than the busso v6. (110kg)

Yes it can output 0-5v, and you can scale the 0-5v to whatever range you want. 
 

Gotta rememeber that 14point7 is a one man band, and he's an engineer type guy not a customer service guy. 

Where as other companies likely have sales people, support people etc. 

Not dissing 14point7, I'd happily buy more of their stuff, in fact, I'll be buying another same wideband setup at some point in future. 

But if you need some hand holding through installation or something (unlikely in this case) then bigger company might offer better support. 

I can confirm that the spartan one does respond really fast by comparison.

Closed loop fuel trim worked a lot nicer than before. 

But as the sensors age they seem to get a bit sluggy on response. Guess filled up more with soot or something. 

Something else semi worthy of noting. 

Usually the go-to for loom plugs is DT or DT mini, but it annoys me that they have their own terminals separate to everything else on a Toyota loom. And they look a bit out of place.
Then if you need a few plugs in the same place, there's risk of mixing them up and plugging wrong thing into the wrong thing.  (True for any type of plug though)
I found some Sumitomo plugs that use the same terminals as everything else on a Toyota loom. Ordered a bunch of 12 way and 16 way plugs to make a detachable loom from the motor. 
So if you used 2x 12 way and 2x 16way, and reversed the male and female sides on each of the same plugs. Then you've got 56 pins with no chance of plugging in anything incorrectly. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001608539293.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.order_detail_item.3.26e5f19c0cNfX9

Yeah I had no end of issues with 4.2 or 4.9 bosch sensors blowing up. 
The quickest I had one shit itself was about 2 days. Some lasted a week or 2. was heart (and wallet) breaking. 
As Stu says, most of the fault was having the sensor blazing hot (like, you have turned the ignition key on, so the wideband heats up) while the motor is dead cold.
I think where I lived at the time (Titirangi) was very cold and very humid, so lots of condensation in the exhaust. 
However, once I put a delayed start on it. Life was good. But sensors would still eventually crap themselves. 
Have since gone to the Spartan 3 and using the LSU-ADV sensor. Not only is it crazy fast to respond, but they're comparatively invincible sensors. As they were designed from the start to be cold start compatible for OEM use. 

I heard a good idea, which is to have a relay that runs from your oil pressure light. So the sensor only starts heating up once the oil light goes out. 
That way you're not consuming an output of your ECU and you dont need to worry about manual switching or whatever. 



 

It's amazing how grippy even the PK6 is on there - if I turn the alternator pulley, it is holding on well enough to turn the crank (heads off though, so no compression) 

However I dont think it would need a huge amount of belt tension to work well. 

Currently has a PK61035 on there, have ordered a PK71080.

Hopefully that'll be long enough to get the alternator bolted on correctly, either with a smidge of tension or slightly loose.

It still cracks me up that with the 1NZ motor, the belt tensioning system is basically "Put a bar behind the alternator, pull the belt tight, do up the alternator" haha. No tensioner at all.

1NZ is a masterpiece of irreducible complexity.

If the belt path works like that, I'll just get another front cover so I get the timing mark back.

Ahh yeah an eccentric idler pulley looks like a good scheme. Will see what I can find. 
 

I'm using a Spartan 3, have used the early version with the analog output (as the canbus didnt work, so new later model one sent under warranty)

and then with canbus. 

Both seemed crazy fast response time compared to 4.9 or 4.2 sensors. Not having to squish a range of results down to a 0-5v signal means you can get readings right out to 50:1 and incredibly rich as well. 

Which is sort of pointless, but when you're initially dialling in a tune it means it takes fewer steps to get to the right point. 

The best part though, is I'm still on my first and only LSU-ADV sensor. Where as I've probably got nearly a dozen blown up 4.2 and 4.9 sensors kicking around. 

Definitely an A+ rating for Spartan 3 from me. But make sure to get the LSU-ADV. 

Ahh yeah I got the e-throttle stuff working a while back @Themi.
I decided I will use one bank with the onboard e-throttle, then second bank controlled over canbus. Rather than both over canbus. 
Reason being that if my setup shits itself, I can still limp somewhere with one bank running. 
But not if both are being controlled by the same external device. 

I've still been trying to find the right plugs for e-throttle. 
It looked like the 2 pin ethrottle plug was the same as the mazda RX7 IACV or the Toyota radio filter. 
However it's the right shape etc but just slightly too small of a plug. 
Then the plug I bought for the 6 pin TPS didnt work either. 
Think I will just change it over to another 4 pin TPS instead that I've got plugs for.

Hah! Good point. probably not. 
 

Yeah its easy to just reindex the timing mark. 

Just set the motor to TDC on #1 and then mark both the pulley and the timing cover at some point that's easy to point the gun at.
Not really a big issue with the timing mark, it's just what you put a timing light on. Not the mark for setting the chain.
So you can just put a new mark on the pulley and something close to it at any position.No drama. 

For the belt, I'm now only going to be running the alternator (pulley 7) and the waterpump (pulley 3) as accessories.
Then pulley 2 is a hydraulic tensioner, number 6 is a static idler.
So there are a few options for the belt path and how tensioner might work.

I'm thinking the top left option is probably the best, as I get the most belt wrap on everything. Could maybe go without the #6 idler. 
Bottom left would be minimal path, least belt wrap, probably flap around a lot and need to be pinged up super tight.

But either way, if I'm not running the belt around #8 (aircon I think) then I need to chop that timing mark.

That outer red line in the picture is the outside edge of the O ring which seals it.

Those two holes in the front end up getting plugged back up. Either screw in a grub screw like oem stuff does, or maybe weld a plug in.

Its just the position of where it needs the oil gallery drilled. So that radius wont affect sealing at all.

Assuming my motor made 150whp in its final config (second dyno said 200whp which was... optimistic) 
Here's a comparison.
I wonder if they've got the exhaust choked up badly. Seems like it hates the big cam until high rpm. 
Hopefully they keep developing it, and dont just call it a day after that dyno session! 

Yeah that's fine, 4GR chat is a safe space to discuss shitty engines from other manufacturers too 

Look for "Salinas speedway" on facebook. 

Some of the shit on there is absolutely wild. Puerto Rico drag racing visit is 100% on the bucket list. 

Yeah might be a harsh dyno - or car might still need a bit more development.

2zz echos in puerto rico run 10 second quarter miles on a stock bottom end.

Power levels of that car are similarish to my 1nz. But my motor was tapped out, that will have lots left in it! 

If it was staying at that power level though, id take the 1nz instead. Less weight, easier maintenance, much easier to replace a motor if needed.

But if they commit to developing that car a bit more. It will be wild.

Found another option today. Suzuki swift. 3 bolt flange with bigger galleries and just an o-ring.

Will compare options in a few days when back where car is. 

@BiTurbo228 could you plz run the numbers on the 2mzfe and vq25hr ? 

21 hours ago, BiTurbo228 said:

Also, I stumbled upon this thread while trying to find out how high a 2GR could rev before shitting the bed and a guy on there mentioned revving the solid lifters until they gave up (but helpfully didn't mention what revs that was). He's also on MR2OC here, but I can't see how to DM people on there which is helpful. He also talked bout running a 5GR crank and rods with 2GR pistons ion a 2GR block. That gives you a short-stroke 2.9l with space for bigger valves in its 94mm bore, and access to 2GR aftermarket forged pistons (468g with ballparked pins and rings). If the 5GR rods weigh the same as the 2GR ones (which they shouldn't) then that's 3.2 tons at 10,000rpm which is about what kpr's 4AGE is pulling.

That or even a standard 5GR sounds good, however that also blows the budget (and engine replacement budget) completely to smithereens.

4GR = $700 replacement engine 

2GR = $4000 replacement engine 
5GR = $$$$$???? replacement engine or crank  (only available in China)

If the 5GR was more easily available, it would make sense as the best base to start from.