scooters

I was talking to Wildat this avo after we chased some local youth who were fighting at our local playground. humpfff... I was saying I was going to start brainstorming to build a off road camper. For a build time that is yet to be established. Iv still got to get the injector bench going. After a quick google I had been threw all the teardrops and found all the "bug out" guys and prepper's but nothing really tickled my pickle. But after much looking I forgot to mention I spent 12 years living in ozzy. I now really do think ozzy know how to build off road campers. The journey's go for 1000's if not 10's of thousands of Km's and can go on for years on end. Very hot and sometimes fairly cold. So I started looking what was going on over there in the way of builders.... I think the best bet is a tow behind camper due to the fact you can dump it and use the vehicle as you need to. No one wants a camper for a daily driver. anyway I think I found the top of the line: this is what I am going to aspire to. It looks like it has been made for military the way the chassis and suspention is built. Sold all over the world and for us poor kiwi's it would be $120K before you blinked. Enter the bruderx exp6. come in at 1600KG before you load it... so it's fairly light I think. http://bruderx.com/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7kdsgRWuraLQgYfavXwsKw It's made from honeycomb panel construction If anyone has any info on how to join corners i'm all ears. secondly post up other campers! and other great things you have seen in the off road camper world! The more cool ideas the better.

Forgot the price was under $200 landed here in NZ. i'm sure the processor is capable of sweeping and all sorts of other interesting tests but I don't think it will ever happen as the language barrier between me and the engineer is as good as baby talk... He wants to set me up as a NZ dealer I don't give a fu*k... I wan't more out of his controller and he won't entertain the idea. and neither of us can advance further so it is what it is. To do all automation will require a different unit. + data logging. In my head thats a way off.

This is made by spark tech. Some no one company in china. They market it as a tool to rattle the injectors while the injectors are sitting in a ultrasonic bath. Why they give you some much control over the pulse width and hz i'll never know. Owen who is a family member who has been helping me along with all this suspects that this controller is a bit of a 1/2 way development. The end product we will never get to know why or what. But some where along the line they decided to release this to make a bit of money and put a injector trigger box on the market. The processor thats in it i'm told is way overkill. It's could easy do the job of rattling the injectors on one leg with it's arm tied behind it's back. SO who really knows what is really going on with it. The mosfet F.E.T's are avalanche rated and I think flyback clamps about 55v. When I got it I didn't expect it to be any good. In fact the sequential and group fire options do not work at the HZ the screen is saying it's doing... But the batch fire (all 6) works spot on right up to 200 hz. Like I said the diodes clobbered the flyback and the injectors just clamped shut so they are gone. There are also options to run a fuel pump and a/c compressor clutch... So without the diodes it will never be able to do that job. I hope this helps

If any of you guys want to make some sort of comment good bad or otherwise about this for a first controller i'm all ears. Thanks for all the input so far.

I'm so pleased to here it about the FET's I have something semi interesting that has been going on. It's my stage 1 controller. It'g got some very heavy duty FET's in it and it's been slightly modified for my needs. Again I have had help from a family member who is a electrical engineer. Very happy with PCB boards unlike myself. Enter the BST 501. China's finest. I can control the HZ and the pulse width.. you can also adjust on the fly be it slowly. It's not the most elegant of controllers but it will indeed help with dynamic flow testing and because I can control the voltage and amps to this controller i can in turn keep tabs on injector voltage. So it's also good for getting latency/ dead time data. I asked the man from china to make it 12,000 RPM capable... and it is and nearly spot on within 1 HZ. So I can test at any duty I feel like. When I first ran the injectors the BST was clobbering the flyback and I was loosing the injector stone dead about 58 HZ. So the diodes have been removed and and the earthing has been changed around. The BST has been run up and I have calibration data. So I know that it is doing what it says it is. The controller takes no notice of any latency. It's just rattling the injectors doing what I tell it to do. And all the test data on it is bloody close. So it's a simple little thing but really at this stage there is no need for a ECM... Unless you have another take on this.??

I some how have serious doubt the pintle will fit in the holes in the top of my rig . let alone ever being able to find a tool to make that pressure... But am looking at a 6000 PSI porta power across the workshop.. hmmmm watsila engines are the go. especially the big cross head 2 stokes with the stuffing box's.. amazing how you get rid of the engine thrust by adding a piston pin between the rod and the piston.

Dual reliefs is similar to a way a circuit works in a digger (as I work for a machine repair company) Basic function works like this... you set circuit reliefs up for every function on the machine bucket, arm, tracks etc... they will all blow off at a lower pressure than what the main relief is set to. The main relief is really the safe device. If a circuit relief is set to high above main relief the main relief will blow off before some sort of major fail... like a blowen hose or cylinder. How this works in the injector bench I'm not so sure it will apply. the reg at the moment looks like it can deal with the flow. I do not see any pressure spikes but it does seam to fluctuate about 2-3 psi on the gauge. It doesn't seam too bad.. the fluctuations could even be my pump feeling the misery of being made to work at 120psi. unless I was dealing with crazy high flow more than what -8 lines and the reg can take it's not going to max out on the current pump set up. I won't know what it will do when I change to some good plumps... That looks like the next step. Instead of 2.5 l per min it might be closer to 9 or 10 Liter per min. I am sure the pump I have will shit very soon. It smells like electrical burning and it's done a few hard runs.. I would never use this in a vehicle. remember as pressure comes up the flow drops back. This is really a pump issue. Hence if you want to run the big pressures more pumps are needed as the flow will drop back as per the test you so kindly graphed for me. Roman Would you agree the first step id to get some Injector Dynamic injectors and then see if I can make a voltage offset vs pressure table and see if I can come up with the same results as the they provide for the injector?

That is a great idea. I could make all sorts of tests the drag race makes a lot of sence. but then I just have to work threw the boost reference side of things... even just sweeping from 1% duty and up to 100% in time frames that I can set and adjust. I don't really know who I would talk to about this sort of thing. Id need lots of code or a program that I could make changes to. any ideas on who to talk to? The other thing that I have thought about is that the FET's in the controllers are going to be different between each controller. So if you test with 1 the results might change If you were to test with another. There will be slight differences between a haltech /megasquirt/microtech in the way they give data for latency/dead time results. ROMAN: I will get back to you tonight. much thinking needed to give you a good answer.

I can't quite concept this in my head. with a haltec it would have to be run in frequency mode. with it set to No home trigger. So only sequential will be possible. But I am unsure if I can overlay a closed loop boost map. Need to talk to a haltec gun... I must add the haltech will need to have one or it's digital outputs feed back into it's signal so we can generate what we need it to see... know what I mean?

cheers bro it will only get bigger and better with time.

Ha thanks your a champ... When it's a graph you can see the dip... That dip is easier to see on a line graph than a tube! worst case the rig can handle x1 2500cc injector or x6 at 400cc.... in current stage 1 form. It's not really a big drama just un plug the injectors I don't really need... much bigger fuel pumps will come.

Hey man.. I like your thinking. So consider what I have now to be a stage 1 of 3... 1 being I can prove a concept after I have found out everything I can with what I got... pumps and controller will be upgraded. likely to something like a haltech or a megasquirt. The megasquirt is cool you plug a sim ups it's bum and then it "thinks" that it is like a real vehicle running injector pulse width and RPM or speed can be controlled with trim knobs between 0% duty and 100%. If there is really anything to be gained from being able to change the injectors on the fly im not so sure. If a injector has a block problem it's blocked and it should show right threw the range. It does not unblock. I do think how linear the injector performs will indeed change. Haltech can be told to work in near the same way with a bit of thought. Being able to change things quickly on the fly like real world is cool... very cool. It will happen in time. Along with better pumps. Fuel pressure is a little harder. All engines make different vacuum at different times and some make more vac than others. its a little harder to gauge, But it's easy enough to do. As you know. Just apply pressure to the reg and watch the pressure. Or do what im doing now and crank it up with a alan key. It's just getting the varibles working in the correct setting and time frame. If you have any ideas on how I do this i'm all ears. Eventually I will offer this up to anyone that wants some real good data and info on their injectors but thats down the track.

That PWM idea is fantastic... I will look into it.. I don't think it will mater to much not but down the track when the pumps get massive it will be a great thing to play with. Cheers man.

Flowed out my pump... 3896 cc per min @ 42psi 3467cc per min @ 60psi 3185cc " " @ 75 PSI 2815cc " " @ 90 PSI 2638cc " " @ 110 PSI 2519cc " " @ 120 PSI A nice thing is that it is fairly linear as pressure comes up flow drops away... Same as any pump in the history of man. Im a little sad... It's a 044 style pump I think it's probs ok when I look at what a real 044 does... As this is the poor China brother. This is where it really matters now I know how many injectors and how big I can test at a time. In time once I get going I can upgrade the fuel system all I want. This is all just a jury rig to get it running so I can start testing. It will be fine but like all things There are always limitations to what the rig will pull.

Got my pump and hooked it all up. Took the gauge home from work for the night and wound the rig up... What do ya know it makes pressure... 42- 120 psi I can't argue to much with that. But at what flow??? more to come.

I'm glad you are all so worried about how safe I am while running this thing. It's the truth that if you are going to test something the best bet is to use the fluid that you want your data from in this case pump fuel. But if it were a dragster maybe methanol or other. Fuel was looking like the only option..... but then. Basicly I spent a lot of time searching for things that are like petrol but don't have a ability to erupt into a big fire ball. There are not a lot of choices. Most injector rigs use white spirits or diesel. Which are close but not exactly like fuel when you look at specific gravity and viscosity. I needed the help of a chemist that knows all about non toxic non flamable liquids. But this is not a viable option. Iv ended up with a liquid that is still a hydro carbon but it wont light up to a naked flame or a spark. (yet to be tested with diffused sprays) the best thing is it is very close to the proerties of pump fuel. So it should go well in the rig. You can buy calabration fluid but I have not found any in NZ.

Filthy ass builder spec...

Finally stood the thing up. I feel like iv moved it 200 times. Been trying to get it all square. Pick up the pump tomorrow. Be interesting to put the pump threw the ringer and see what flows I can get at given pressure.

should knock it over by the weekend....

Excessive flow not using large enough fluid conductors. To much fluid flooding the relief. There are all sorts of things that make heat. In a ideal world my pump would give just over the fuel needed to meet the demand. At the moment I will be starting with a china 044 but that can be switched for anything if I have a issue. It's more just something to get the rig going. A pump is not critical as long as it's meeting the demand then it's fine. I will keep a very keen eye on the heat situation. I don't want it to jump around too much between tests. I am yet to decided on the tank but it could be a 20L steel drum of a 60 L stainless tank I just happen to have here. It's encouraging that you think heat building up wont really be a issue.

A fine question thanks for making me think. Being that the injectors are not sitting in a manifold with air rushing past there has been no real reason to make the tubes full sealed. The injectors sit in the black alloy adapters (for top feed) and the side feed rail fits straight into the top without the need for the black adapter. In both cases with the adapter and the side feed rail the fit is good but it's not going to be air tight. If the tubes were going to fill in less than 1 second with all that air needing to be displaced in a short amount on time id be in a state of panic. But the tubes fill at a slow rate of 3.7 cc per 1 mm of fluid height. How fast the tubes fill is depending on what the injector is rated to at static flow... ie 1500cc injectors is 1500cc per min. which if I do that I will burn them out because injectors wont last at 100% duty. So the air will make it's way out slowly as the tubes fill. Any dust contamination that may get in while switching injectors out will be caught by a series of fuel filters.

Oh no not all all. The more input you have the better. I'v actually learned from the way you did your testing. Feel free to talk with me about it i'm open to whatever. You have been there and done it. So keep all input coming.

Didn't do a lot today. I pulled the fuel reg down for a look. Found the inside where the fuel comes in was a wall. Great for making heat and hurting flow if not creating turbulence. This reg may not work out to well but I got stuck into it with a die grinder and made the best of it I could... It might surprise me and hold a rock stable fuel pressure. But if it can't i'll be binning it in favor of a turbosmart reg. I will also boost reference the rig. So that means I can run any fuel pressure like in a vehicle. The fittings were bad... my son who is 2 could have cut better threads with a hack saw.. so they have been binned in favor of -8 stainless fittings.

Clearly you understand all about it. it's kind of the whole point of the test rig. I will eventually get my hands on some injectors that have data. (like injector dynamics) then I will run them up and see if I can come up with the same figures as injector dynamics. That to me will be proof of concept and the rig then becomes useful to a handful of people that want to do things right. It's my gut feeling that everything in the red is about were most people that tune get to when dealing with injectors. It's very loose and there about way to go. I really just want to give the most spot on data I can and supply the most info people could ever want about their injectors. But at the moment it's the build phase and we are on the journey If you have any injectors floating around you want looked at for any reason id be only to happy to help anyone on old school for free.

I'm real glad you enjoy the project. Ha yea no diddling around with 160cc tubes when you are running a 2200cc injector. My idea behind the tubes is the more times the injector can shoot the greater the accuracy when I crunch the numbers. I have no issues letting it bench for a few minutes Secondly it becomes very clear to the eye when there is a fueling error with a injector. commencing demonstration.. Also I get to see the spray in a nice large area not a tiny piss pot cylinder. To work it all out if fairly straightforward. Firstly you find the radius Inside the tube & do a pi calculation and work out how many cc per mm the fluid climbs the tube. From there you stick a ruler on the base and measure how far up the fluid goes. Secondly add the cc amount caught in the bottom above the tap valve. The trigger unit for the injectors has a counter but i'll get to that later. I was wanting to use a flow meter. But I have since found them to have + or - x% error. They are also very expensive. So for now its a steel rule. I will also cross check my results by weight. When you are shooting for good data and at such small pulse widths 2ms and under by weight is really the only way to cross check results. hmmmm.. I never thought of that... the secondary injectors sit in a different part of the manifold. I suspect spray pattern and atomisation will also be vastly different between injector? I really have not had much to do with staging injectors.. other than staging fuel pumps.. that is for fuel temp control more than any other purpose. Why run 3 pumps and boil your fuel with returning heat when 1 is plenty.