Hyperblade

59 minutes ago, WhangareiKE70 said:

My apologies for misinterpreting then. 

Can someone please confirm my concern that Realdash won't work with link G4X range? Once again not trying to be thick, just want someone with more understanding than me to have a look. 
http://realdash.net/support.php 
On there it says it supports "Link ECU- (Except G4X, which does not output serial stream)". 
I am just unsure what serial stream is and if there is any potential workaround or if it just means that this is a complete no go.

 

So out of the box Realdash won't work with G4X ecus.

However it looks like you can get it working by buying CAN adapters etc

Have a read of this thread

https://forums.linkecu.com/topic/11928-compatibility-of-g4x-ecus-and-realdash/

Edit: However you will want to be fairly technical to get all that working... A windows tablet might be easier...

An alternative is to use a cheap android or windows tablet.

RealDash is one choice http://www.realdash.net/ but will depend on your ecu model.

https://forums.linkecu.com/topic/8637-introducing-realdash-a-dashboard-app-for-android-windows/

The other option is to run a windows tablet and just use the PCLink software directly.

Here's it on a 7" tablet

And a 10" tablet which I have used in racing for a few years

Pros

• Get access to every bit of data available.
• Responsive
• Free software
• Tablet's can be had for around $250nz

Cons

• It won't automatically turn on when car does (if tablet if shutdown) but can be configured to automatically open PCLink on boot and start showing.
• You have a large lithium battery in cabin (fire risk)
• Limited options in how you display the data (including labels).

1 hour ago, Tiger Tamer said:

Well I have hit the buy now. Need to get a flywheel- clutch- bellhousing and Hillux r151 gearbox. May need a rear sump pan as well. All seem to be available. Gearbox maybe little harder as the ones on trade me are rebuilt exchange. 

 

Congrats!

I'm a little bit further down the conversion track then you which means you might find some useful information in my build thread for what your about to go through.

Otherwise post up questions, and I can also try and help answer them as I've got my head around these engines now.

Yours looks like a CL7 version, so a couple of things to note. 

They come with balance shafts which you will have to replace if you are moving the pickup to the rear, the only place I've seen offer that rear sump was Kmiata (Kpower now).

https://kpower.industries/collections/kmiata-swap-parts/products/k-series-miata-oiling-solution

That also needs a replacement oil pump, so it probably worth doing the timing chain/tensioner at the same time as you have to remove it to do the oil pump chain. I didn't but then realised my chain had stretched (motor had done 106,000k) by a couple of mm so ended up replacing it in the end, but i'm going for every bit of performance.

I've been buying all my genuine replacement parts from Amayama as they come in a lot cheaper then anywhere else you can source them from, you just have to work out the part numbers etc.

The other thing to note is the CL7 version is more like the USA K24 then a EP3/DC5 in some of it's items like water outlets etc. And the FD2 engine was based on the CL7 as well.

In terms of water outlets etc I would say give aliexpress a go first, I brought genuine Ktuned stuff, and the quality was pretty poor, which means you could potentially save a few $$ by just going for the Chinese knock offs.

Good luck!

I'm using the Deutsch HD30 bulkhead connectors and found them great.

You can get a cheaper version HD20 which is composite instead of aluminum and they come in various mixtures of pin sizes max being 47.

https://www.msel.co.nz/epages/motorsportelectronics.sf/sec69a2cb9283/?ObjectPath=/Shops/motorsportelectronics/Products/CONHDP242447SK

https://www.msel.co.nz/epages/motorsportelectronics.sf/sec69a2cb9283/?ObjectPath=/Shops/motorsportelectronics/Products/CONHDP262447PK

Total from msel would be $160incl

But you will need the crimpers for the pins (but might be able to borrow some from someone) and personally I would recommend a mounting plate to stop them spinning.

If you want to see an HD30 fitted in person just send me a pm.

Just saw your video 

Please go and check your seat mounting, your seat is moving around way to much for my liking

Here's a recent example where a seat mounting broke, note that it was a low speed crash in the scheme of things and the belts could probably have been a little tighter...

You can see the seat moving around prior, but a lot less then yours...

https://www.facebook.com/sambushellmotorsport/posts/1987233984751634

Ended up with damaged ribs.

15 hours ago, Dcore said:

Do you still have this car???

I own the car now, you can see where I took over from here

3 hours ago, mjrstar said:

@Hyperblade owns this now if I am not mistaken, although it's pretty much unrecognizable from when Q had it! 

It's still yellow and a Toyota (just)

If your looking at light engines, you should run the numbers on a bike engines turboed... Pick the right cc you can even stay in under 2L class

1 hour ago, Roman said:

This is all coming together nicely! 

Good work on that ducting, looks great. Nice idea having those foldable tabs on the curved part.

And yeah it can sometimes be surprising how little thought goes into some aftermarket parts! 

Love the bussmann boxes I'll definitely not bother mucking around with big DIY relay/fuse boards etc anymore.

Thanks!

The ducting takes a while, lots of planning, but i'm getting practiced at it now. Riveting makes it easy, no special tools required.

I would love a bussmann box with more relays, I always seem to run out, but i prefer having everything centralized rather then have full amps going through a switch.

I suppose PDM's are taking over that space, but they are still to expensive for number of outputs.

@Roman

Honda Plenum Sizing FYI

RBB (06-08 TSX)

• Part #: 17110-RBB-000
• Weight: 6.2kg
• Throttle body opening: 60mm (with idle bypass)
• Runner Length: 31.0cm
• Runner width: 4.4cm (min)
• Runner width: 4.8cm (max)
• Individual runner volume: 492.5cc
• Total runner volume: 1970cc
• Plenum volume: 1650cc
• Total manifold volume: 3620cc

RBC (CL7) (supposedly one of the best)

• Part #: 17100-RBC-J00
• Weight: 4.5kg
• Throttle body opening: 62mm (with idle bypass)
• Runner Length: 18.5cm
• Runner width: 4.8cm (min)
• Runner width: 5.1cm (max)
• Individual runner volume: 270cc
• Total runner volume: 1080cc
• Plenum volume: 1720cc
• Total manifold volume: 2800cc

RSP (FN2)

• Part #:
• 17100-RSP-G00
• 17101-RSP-G00
• 17102-RSP-G01
• 17103-RSP-G00
• Weight: 5.6kg
• Throttle body opening: 64mm (no idle bypass)
• Runner Length *1: 25.5cm
• Runner Length *2: 19.5cm
• Runner width: 4.8cm (min)
• Runner width *1: 5.8cm (max)
• Runner width *2: 5.1cm (max)
• Individual runner volume: 295cc
• Individual velocity stack volume: 105cc
• Total runner volume *1: 1600cc
• Total runner volume *2: 1180cc
• Plenum volume *1: 2530cc
• Plenum volume *2: 2950cc
• Torque Chamber volume: 800cc
• Total manifold volume: 4930cc

*1 with velocity stacks fitted
*2 without velocity stacks fitted

RRC (FD2)

• Part #: 17100-RRC-000
• Weight: xx kg
• Throttle body opening: 64mm
• Runner Length: ~ 19.0cm
• Runner width: ~5.1cm (min)
• Runner width: ~5.3cm (max)
• Individual runner volume: xxxcc
• Total runner volume: xxxxcc
• Plenum volume: xxxxcc
• Total manifold volume: xxxxcc
   

1 hour ago, ajg193 said:

I'm not sure you can really say the engine idles well when you have an engine that idles at like 4000 rpm (no idea if this is actually the idle speed, but wouldn't be surprised).

 

Edit: Just looked at a youtube video, idles at like 1000 rpm. Not bad... Insanely rough idle though and really rattly

 

 

I've seen a video of a 3K-R and that thing would stutter and miss until over 5000 rpm

Just for everyone else following along.

Here's Jamie's engine on dyno.

6 minutes ago, Spencer said:

This is so good. Probably another 5-10hp+ in some headers and zaust, buy a box of bends and make spaghetti/mess

Set of TRD headers on TM for the low price of $1000... Claims 7.4kW(10ps) improvement...

https://www.trademe.co.nz/2814713140

5 hours ago, Roman said:

It is interesting that in the Honda world, plenums seem to be par for the course and hardly anyone has ITB?
They all seem to have quite a tiny plenum volume, and do see benefits from changing length of the intake pipe on the front. 
I wonder if this all exists below that theoretical line of where the engines would make power if they had open ITB with fresh air instead.
Or whether small plenum is key to making use of that front pipe. I've definitely seen changes from it.

It's bloody hard to actually figure out how much power some people make when they all post power at the engine, from an at the wheels Dyno.
Which Americans seem to love doing.
Like this dudes saying 242hp which sounds impressive... But then its 180 at the wheels... not so much.
Then fuck me dead they're changing the drivetrain losses numbers with each run
 
https://www.tegiwaimports.com/blog/?p=2443&fbclid=IwAR266P7qfV3gFadKoJUGXyCdNDvf1ZDgb47jYaU5TjK_GKpVJLITCwVSUBU

Bloody Americans

@Hyperblade will show us some proper Honda science soon enough

5 hours ago, Spencer said:

Yeah lots of that is just that the stock K20 inlets works real well out of the box. There is like 8 different designs/lengths that move the power around for each application (heavy car gets long runners, type-R gets shorter etc). The aftermarket follows along with so called improvements and makes similar intakes that slam dunk into the factory position so its a easy bolt on type swap. It doesn't mean that is the optimal design, just works well for road cars and you can upgrade manifolds without changing everything else (drive by wire etc etc). The hard core race car or drag stuff still end up with ITB's which end up with a big carbon box feeding air from the front of the car.

People do get gains from larger throttle bodies as they mod K20/4's which are on the end of the plenum so the plenum opening does become a restriction at some point.

There is also the RSP manifold off the FN2 type R which has a larger plenum. From what I have seen it still just moves the power around due to the runner lengths like the others. (hard to find a good photo but I think below someone has polished and fitting thermal gaskets)

 

 

As Spencer said their are so many different designs/lengths for the K20/24 manifolds.

I agree with him that some of this is for different types (weight etc) of cars. I also think a lot of it is packaging in the engine bay. I.e the Euro has a bigger bay so can fit in longer runners. But same manifold won't fit in Integra without a bit of chopping, replacement.

Also Honda doesn't just stick with what they know, they do try and optimise for each engine/car combo. i.e the FD2 has a range of changes just for 5HP.

The American market is interesting, a lot of people are really trying to do everything on the cheap, so naturally that means it's cheaper to get a second hand manifold off a different car. So you have these massive debates on which stock manifold is better.

Same with headers, PLM is the greatest for HP (supposedly), but in reality that's only because of the price of it, when in actual fact it's pretty average all round.

They are always after bolt on horsepower, with no tuning, which they get away with because of the factory wideband O2 sensor. They seem to be very reluctant to actually tune a car probably because most don't have aftermarket ECU's or can't afford them.

So for Quad Throttles you have the issue they are are fucking expensive for what they are, and they also don't fit in easily with a good air filter (front wheel drive life), so it's a lot harder to justify.

Toyota guys are lucky as they can use the cheap 4AGE ones ($200), but if they were paying $500-$1000 for a set then it becomes a vastly different proposition.

The other side is Honda manifolds are actually really well designed, so it's not a massive gain, plus of course requires an aftermarket computer for ITBs.

So all round it gets to hard/expensive for most of them.

I've been trying to find information on Honda K20a Plenum sizing, and have came up with fuck all, I can space my new one out to increase it and maybe? get more HP, but I can't find any data anywhere on how big to go, and the difference it would have on the K20a which is really frustrating.

Anyone got any good info on plenum sizing?

Currently is 1.8L but I can easily add spacers to increase, from what I've seen on the internet people say around 3-3.5L is better, cause reasons... Negative maybe affects throttle response? Not sure if on part throttle how big an issue that is???

I have the space available so easy to do now... Might also allow injectors in their...

15 hours ago, _Matt said:

Love how this is coming along!

How did you remove the old underseal? I’ve started scraping mine off and it’s taking forever!

It's a nightmare.

I tried a number of things, but what worked best was a Clean and Strip Disc on a grinder

e.g. https://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/product/10311-toolshed-clean-and-strip-disc-115mm?categoryId=1918

It doesn't heat it up so it comes off fairly well, it does however create massive mess (I'll still be finding bits in the garage for years to come)

However you do end up going through a lot of them as they wear out, and you have to be so careful you don't catch them on anything otherwise large chunks come off.

The other thing I tried that worked was an Oscillating Tools, it came off in nice flakes, the only downside was it was really hard to get into hollows and corners, but would work ok on flat panels. It was also fairly hard on the tool.

e.g. https://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/product/6288-milwaukee-m12-cordless-multi-tool-12v-bare-tool-

I tried a wire cup on grinder and it just smeared it.

I've also heard water blasting it might be an option, keeps it cool.

12 hours ago, Matt G said:

Dang that axle popping, very lucky not to be hurt.

Do you think it was vibration at speed that caused it to let go? or was it just unlucky timing, would have thought it would let go at low speed where there is max Torque?

Excellent build love the setup.

LOVE BEAMS

We had just replace the rear universal, so it was ether an installation error, or it just was a cheap universal that failed. Certainly reinforces that having a drive shaft hoop is a must.

RE BEAMS, You might want to keep reading the build thread  

1 hour ago, Truenotch said:

This video does a good job of showing those effects on a Honda B engine: 

 

Thanks for that, great video, clearly a no brainier if you can do it.

1 hour ago, Roman said:

Only thing that sucks is the wall wetting area gets massive. So steady state is fine but transients become super messy. 
Your tune can work really well at a given rpm accel rate (like 4th or 5th gear) but then is messy in 1st and 2nd because the delayed evaporation now happens at a different rpm.
You really need to maintain a hot intake manifold temp to keep evaporating the fuel that sticks to the runners. 
With a temperature insulated intake manifold it ends up feeling like you're cold start tuning your car the whole time it runs.

Also need a big injector so that you've got some scope to move the injector timing around to avoid standoff issues.
Where the fuel blows back out the top of the runner.

So, was thinking about running staged, with some 700cc injectors I have here outboard... 

Still need to see if I can fit them in the manifold.

But probably best not to derail this thread anymore

I would love to see the difference in performance of moving injectors outboard of trumpets, but a bit of work to setup for someone.

13 hours ago, smokin'joe said:

being contact with original builder is the key, from when i talked to tech office

It does make it easier, but you should still be able to get the changes through it just might need more pushing from your side.

I know someone who got an old cage homologated under the new rules so it is doable.

Of course if they want everyone to use HANS they are going to have to get their shit sorted as there will be a lot of cages which will need harness bars due to the belt angles.

Have a talk to Deane/Brent at Palmside (They did my cage changes) they might be able to advise you on if it's likely you can get your changes through.