shrike

Hey I really hope I've mis read but did you lap the valves to the seats before you reassembled or did they do that at the shop and had the valves labelled to fit the head?

If it came back a bare head I'd be worried about valves sealing to the seats

And did you leak test the valves before you put the head on the block? 

If the machine shop/engine reconditioner lapped the valve seats to remove pitting then just putting the valves back into the head may not seal as well as it should 

Happy to he corrected  and I hope that makes sense

Great to see progress and I hope it all goes vaxk together well

Can you fill from the other head if you had an oil cap on the other cover?

Golebys over here is doing a few things with these platforms now maybe have a look

https://golebysparts.au/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw5v2wBhBrEiwAXDDoJa8CAaxiaw9yXt82jZsUpJY1uVzC0sWrZj-Th8_q52rQkl29DPoa8hoCm_MQAvD_BwE

25 minutes ago, Roman said:

Yeah will probably merge into a single 3" pipe to back of the car.

Probably better to go even bigger, or have separate pipes for each bank all the way to back of the car. 
But it sounds better if you merge them.

Also it gets a lot harder trying to have some decent mufflers under the car once the pipes start getting bigger.
 

No space for 3.5" then, considered Oval exhaust :p

Keen to see what you come up with :0

13 minutes ago, Roman said:

Nah, I think I punished him enough with non 4AGE related work already. 

Apparently he stays up late at night washing his hands, still trying to get the stink of 1NZ off them...

For now it'll just be the factory manifolds and then try do the rest of the exhaust nicely-ish to suit end goals. Then flanges to suit putting some nicer manifolds on as things progress.

What was the 4age successor? (According to Wiki it was the 3zz, then 1ZR) so guess 1NZ isn't close enough haha

Thinking Single or dual exhaust? 

Thoughts on sizing, 3" is always the answer if single right?

@Romanis it going to get a @kprspecial exhaust?

26 minutes ago, GARDRB said:

The CRV with Landrover Discovery viscous to pinned CRV diff setup seems to be capable of 7s in a civic, but then they are all cars that would run 8s without the rear assist probably.

It's all pointing to the 2AR/2AZ being a better option in a Toyota

 

Yeah I am more looking at track work then just drag strip and a pinned rear diff doesnt appeal to me :p, but yes the Landrover viscous is a good work around

I'd rather get a custom gear or redo my rear diff mount for a proper 1.5/2way diff etc

Might need to look into 2AR/AZ again but pretty sure the K motor was better option in stock form, oh the joys of oddball builds haha

42 minutes ago, GARDRB said:

Have a look here https://www.woodsport.org/forum/forum.php

Paul Woods from Woodsport pioneered the 2gr MR2 swap I believe. He built a 2gr AWD first gen Rav4. I seem to recall him using a smaller transfer case from a later model Rav4 due to it being smaller than the GT4 one. Also google 2gr Alltrac, the US Celica guys have done it a couple of times which may help with finding bits that give more clearance. 

It was Hux racing that told me the Toyota transfer wouldn't fit with the K24 block. It was a comment on one of his Facebook posts somewhere I believe. 

Found some comments, the Alltrac (GT4) box won't work with the Rav/highlander (Kluger) transfercase so id need to possibly use a Rav box, Rav boxes are narrow gear e series and if I need to do another box I may as well go for a Honda setup

"Unfortunately the alltrac box cant be utilised directly due to a number of major differences compared to the rav4 box.

The biggest headache with using the alltrac box will be the drive arrangements from it into the highlander/lexusrx3300/rav4 type transfercase, unfortunately theyre incompatible.
The alltrac has a castellated locking sleeve used to engage the diff-locking function on earlier pneumatic actuators thats locked out by a bolt and a quadrant type fitting.
The Sleeve is a different diameter, different length and a different number of splines.
Ive got some video i took when i had the alltrac and ravboxes apart that clearly show the differences plus multiple photos.
In addition, you cant use the alltrac right hand driveshaft due to its construction being totally different to the rav4's, you have to use the ravs or the highlanders.
Other problems; The oil feed for the outboard support bearing isnt even half close to its opposite number on the rav; The highlander transfer wont bolt up to the alltrac box directly due to major differences with the stud locations; and the aforementioned differences with driving arrangements.
Basically it all adds up to a big fat headache."

32 minutes ago, smokin'joe said:

same set-up as GT4, but different ratios are the 2 versions of 4WD carib. need Raghead to join up as he obsessed, but 1600 and 1800 are different, unsure if transfer ratios the same.
pre-ABS models have lockable centre/transfer.

The Ae115 Carib Has an E50F gearbox (also wide gears) I have one in my spares :p don't know if rear diff (also have one) is a different ratio or if the transfer case setup is different etc

AWD Caldina had a similar but updated box, you can also use the MR2 Turbo E153 to mix and match parts there is an E153 adapter kit to K series motors

After looking around the net and discovering not a whole heap of info in the same place thought I would start this as a placeholder.

Both for myself and for anyone looking at using this drive-train going forward as these cars get older

Few write ups on what to use in the US but not really much for Australia/New Zealand

Ozhonda seems to be dead, and NZhonda doesn't have much activity either and its hard to search

I started looking into this as I am wanting to drop a K24A3 into my AE111, and with my E series AWD gearbox (wide gears) potentially not an option (TBC) as the transfer case may be too big I started looking into the CRV drivetrain

There are kits for DSG conversion etc as well but I am specifically going to be talking about Manual gearboxes

Ok so tech dump

All the K series fitted cars manual gear boxes the gears etc seem to be interchangeable, the AWD diff is the main difference as it has the Transfer gear on it 

There is also guides on how to convert the 5speed to a 6speed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VR-zCT0I54)

FWD LSD can be used if spaced and Transfer gear is added, but specific AWD LSD's can be brought

Factory gearboxes are meant to be 400-600hp capable but start to break at that power, there is upgraded gearset/syncro/hubsliders etc options to do 800hp and then dog box options above that

Lots of Billet options too

CRV shafts and CVs are small so may need upgrading as well

Transfer gear ratios are 0.434 for the Manual and 0.393 for the Auto, the transfer case is the same between the two (transfer gear on the diff is the same between auto and manual, difference is the gear it connects too in the transfer case I had to look up the part numbers to confirm this)

Factory CRV rear diff is 2.529 Ratio (USA) for reference the rear GT4 Celica (7.1" or 6.7" T series?) diff is 2.928

Below info, note this is USA sourced info and the CRV final drive is conflicting to other sources

I need to find out what the OZ/NZ rear diffs and gearbox final drive ratios are so will update once I know, I would say New Zealand ratios would be JDM cars but will look for NZ delivered details

Edit Australian Ratios

2007 CRV (http://m.australiancar.reviews/_pdfs/Honda_CRV_RE4_Specifications_200702.pdf) 2011 is listed as the same

The Factory CRV is not all time AWD and doesn't have a center diff, it runs a viscous coupling, the factory one has overheating issues if run all the time and is designed for an 80/20 power split

Note the GT4 Celica uses a center diff in the transfer case that is viscous but is designed for a 50/50 spilt

The Rear CRV diff is not designed to be run all the time and mods (pinning) are required to make it reliable, you can get different viscous couplings to change how it runs or remove it and run AWD all the time.

The viscous coupling helps to manage the different wheel speed between the front and the rear

The issue with running it all the time is the front and rear ratios don't match and as its not a proper diff will cause binding (there are kits to swap phantom diffs etc in) but typically the best bet is to swap to a real LSD type diff

Some people adjust tyres etc to fix this, or just live with it, if I wanted to use my GT4 rear diff I could either get a new rear diff ratio (Crown/Pinon) made at a ratio that lines everything up or a new Transfer gear made at the correct ratio (0.3778) or I could get my mounts remade and go to different drive shafts etc

Using an Auto Transfer Gear in a manual gearbox would make it worse

Using the GT4 Rear diff ratio is horrible

Custom Transfer case Gear (or get a custom rear diff ratio of 2.549)

Diffs with factory ratio to match the CRV are

• 2002 Jag X type
• Dana 35
• BMW 2.56"
• 2014 Kia Sorento 2.0 (but has electric valve)

Feel free to add anything if anyone has any more knowledge

Good video on K series box rebuild for 800hp

https://youtu.be/ABcZQhperYQ?si=DROL4nfoHEFEFczC

2 minutes ago, Muncie said:

GM 4.3 Liter V6 EcoTec3 LV3 Engine keen to slip one of these into my commodore when the 500000k ecotec dies under the turbo.

Not seen any for sale yet.

What do these come in locally? the newer Commodores? I could have a look at local wreckers here in Ozzie land

8 hours ago, GARDRB said:

I don't want to rain on your parade if you were considering using the E-series toyota box with the K24, but I talked to the K24 to E-series adapter guy that does all the MR2 kits when I was considering doing a k24 into an ae104 wagon and he said he's looked into it and the K24 block will not play nicely with the Toyota transfer case. He recommended going to CRV gear.

5 hours ago, mjrstar said:

Convert the k24 to run Volkswagen dsg, there are kits.

So looking at the DSG conversion Pic

The output does look pretty close to the Block not sure how much further the GT4 Transfer case sits out but your right it may not fit or may need to see if shaving the block is an option (not ideal tho)

The CRV AWD box doesn't have a center diff like the GT4 Box and after reading up it sounds like the front transfer case does run full time and the load to the rear is controlled by a clutch pack to the rear diff (rear diff can't handle full time AWD)

Considering I spent 2.5k on a front LSD for the GT4 box not including install and bearings etc, I am hesitant to change boxes (I could always swap back to a Bellhousing to suit the 3S again rather then the 4a) and try move it on still keen to see if I can make it work

Seems to be a 80:20 split to the rear which isn't great on the CRV box, few options for Transfer case upgrades to hold big power but also with a big price tag. Trying to track down info on what a factory transfer case will handle :s

Edit, Can't get confirmation on what power the 5/6speed will handle (talk of 400hp) waiting to find out what power the transfer case can hold, though Humble performance claim 600hp on a K series Box

Might have to go grab a box/motor from a wrecker here will see what the weather is like this weekend

26 minutes ago, GARDRB said:

I don't want to rain on your parade if you were considering using the E-series toyota box with the K24, but I talked to the K24 to E-series adapter guy that does all the MR2 kits when I was considering doing a k24 into an ae104 wagon and he said he's looked into it and the K24 block will not play nicely with the Toyota transfer case. He recommended going to CRV gear.

Dam, will investigate either way, my E box has an aftermarket front LSD etc and works with my drive flanges and rear diff

CRV gear isn't full time AWD and has other issues that im hoping to avoid

Thanks for the heads up

27 minutes ago, cletus said:

What's a good running K24 worth? I had a look on trademe but there's none on there at the moment 

 

I'll likely have access to one soon, and it's in a handy take home package

Wreckers quoted me 1500, there is heaps on FB marketplace for 1k 

That's for the K24A3, obviously if I go to pickapart and roll the dice it's cheaper (but I'd need to be in NZ for that) 

Happy to have a chat if you have one come up im also open to a whole car depending on pricing 

My Ae111 AWD Build that should have been finished long ago (blame moving to OZ and a no rush attitude) is now looking like itll get a K24 (turboed) for moderate power with options to turn the wick up later rather then going down the 9a route (stroked 7a/20v head etc) as the money I save on the motor can go to other things

I did look at the 2AR as would have liked to go Toyota but the K24 is just a better engine, and tbh I may end up not having any markings on the valve cover so who would know as @Roman said 3S bellhousings for transverse engine are an option (shame ive swapped my GT4 Celica box to an A series housing :S) so would need an adapter plate either way

As realistically im building the Ae111 for part availability and the K24 support is just nuts

Adapter plates and custom flywheels are pretty easy to get these days, I had a look at Tilton twin plates for the E series wide gear AWD box with A series housing on it and I can get a K24 flywheel with all the 7.25" plates etc off the shelf (just need to work out input shaft engagement, and id ideally like to have the starter motor on the gearbox side rather then the engine side but thats not a big deal. I suspect once I get measurements there may already be a K24 Flywheel in a kit that will work or I can shave some bellhousing etc etc

Once aftermarket ECUS with Direct injection come down in price/people work out how to use the factory ecu without other systems etc I'd really like to see some direct injection engines used, ideally with port injection for additional fuel delivery 

The below came out roughly 2017 so in 3 years they will be 10 year old cars and there is buckets of the cars they came in on the roads even ex rentals/fleet cars etc

Toyota M20A-FKS  13:1

205hp to the crank 152kw after a tune etc and id say probably still decent fuel ecom factory they are meant to be around 140-150kw but do 4ish L per 100km

Toyota M20A-FXS is the 14:1 option in the hybrid version

Larger option is the

A25A-FKS 13:1

A25A-FXS 14:1

The Subaru FA24 is also something that would be good for modernizing some of the older subarus for a restomod sort of setup

Big thing with newer options is better tech and parts options

Obviously the GR variants of Hot hatch have the 3cylinder G16E

Going with a stock 2zz? Or doing some tweaks? 

Curious to see how the 2zz goes in rwd few newer options around now, esp after seeing @Romanresults with his 1nz 

2AR have been popular in MR2 etc

I'd love to see the newer corolla M20A-FKB engines in one of these but the 14:1 M20A-FXS would be interesting (might be a bottom end swap sort of thing) direct injection, my partners corolla gets like 4L per 100km

 B1600 diff is an interesting option drum brake or is there a disc brake option. How heavy are they compared to the factory diff?

8 hours ago, Roman said:

It is tantalizingly close. 

I probably could have done that a week ago.
Except for that I've been in the South Island for work, and we found a second hand garage for removal that is a significant upgrade over the tiny one I've currently got.
(New one 9x6m 2.4 stud height)
So have had zero free time for car stuff.

I'm picking up the last of it tomorrow, then hoping to do some carina stuff in the afternoon.
I want that start up damnit!







 

New garage looks the goods will be nice to have some new space I'm sure, not quite tall enough for a clear floor yeah? 

So is it ready for a no exhaust start up? :p

Any plans for heatwrap or ceramic coating?

Looks the goods, what does the slushbox take powerwise?

Aliexpress and Temu have jets for sale at reasonable pricing 

Vvt is on the intake side right, what's the exhaust cam like in say the ZL-DE? Is it worth swapping the exhaust cam over? 

Guessing the intake cam is specific in the ZL-VE or could you use a cam from the ZL-DE or am I thinkingof the ZM-DE, I was reading about ZL-DE/VE or  heads on A series blocks and thought dual Exhaust cams might be an option? 

@Romanso injectors, new rad hose and you can get it fired up? 

1 hour ago, Roman said:

At the moment I was just working on the basis that the V10 has 10 cylinders and makes 500hp, so 6 cyl worth of injectors should be 300hp capable no problem. 

However has rpm goes up, you need a slightly bigger injector to make the same amount of HP. As your deadtime gobbles up an increasing amount of your available time to spray.
 

550cc would give you headroom for e85 or are you just looking at running pump gas?

3 minutes ago, mjrstar said:

i bet there are piles of falcon injectors from turbo barras that have been upgraded, even the non-turbo ones might be around 300cc?  but DYOR

They aren't long pintle, also they are the same injector as the non turbo just with higher fuel pressure