slickyddyer Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Hi, building a 205 Pinto motor. Using a fast road cam and twin 45 dellortos. Just wondering if I should use the 1600ohc head (with porting polish, new big valves,seats ect) to beef up the compression ratio rather than the 2l? The fast road cam states it works best with a 10.5:1 comp ratio. Does anybody know what the comp ratio is achieved using the 1600 head? The 2L head has 50cc chambers obviously and the 1600 has 38cc chambers. Not planning on racing this engine so I need to know if the ratio is going to be too high. Maybe just get some head work done the original? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I have run the 1600 head with 2l valves, porting, and a Kelford Fr32 cam however I dropped the compression.. just chucking the head on standard is too high compression and it wont tune up right on street gas, cant remeber the ration ow but its way too high. Either use a metal headgasket or take some meat out. What cam you looking to run? Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickyddyer Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Hi gaz! hows your mk 2 going? ...I am going to use a fast road cam! Yes I thought that may be case. How did you drop the compression on yours? With a gasket? How thick a metal head gasket should I be looking for? 2mm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholdowa Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 1600 head is a good starting point, but as Gaz mentioned the CR will be way too high without work. Anything over 10.5 usually requires forged pistons, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickyddyer Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Thanks - So what do you think I should do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I ran 10.3:1 compression and it was ok, I also ran adjustable cam gear. Machining chamber is better than running steel headgaskit but you need to CC test and do calcs. What fast road cam are you going to run, there are many? Id go the next step up from the Fr32.. cant member code right now. You will need reground lifters to match also. Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickyddyer Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Not sure what cam it is. Just said it was a reground one to fast road specs... I'm going to ask cylinder head specialists here in christchurch what they think and get them to do the head work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Get the ports cleaned up a bit at the same time, I was running a basic 3 angle cut on mine and no valve guides. 2l valves with lash caps... Make sure you get rockers faced to suit the cam otherwise it will eat the cam. Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickyddyer Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Yea I will get stage one or two porting done. I'll take both heads in and have a chat. Will let you know soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickyddyer Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Took both heads in today to Cylinder Head Specialists in chch. Had a chat and they said they had worked with both types a lot and it was merely rumored that the 1600 head was better but in fact the 2L head is fine and easier to achieve the compression ratio I desire. Maybe if it was for a race motor the 1600 would be the go, but It aint. They reckon one port is too big any way so they are going to clean them up port and fit cam and new bigger valves and hard seats and skim to ratio about 9.5:1 which should be good for a reliable street motor. Very busy though. Could be 3 weeks until I get it back. Update soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Standard 1600 block + head = 9.2:1 compression ratio Late model 1600 block + head = 9.5:1 compression Standard 2000 block + head = 9.2:1 Anyways increasing to 9.5:1 aint going to do shit, I wouldn't bother unless your already planning to skim the head for rebuild purposes! IMO you should leave the standard compression ratio unless your looking to do any porting to increase performance.. Ideally you would do porting, raised compression, carbs upgrade and a cam to match... Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickyddyer Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 Have you read any of what I've posted? I'm doing all that stuff gaz. Porting Rasied comp Twin 45 Dellortos Cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I see that just saying that skimming the head to raise the compression that slight mount is almost a waste of time. The rest was just general gospel not necessarily related to your build sorry. FYI Porting a 2l head is a tricky head to port also, generally you dont get the same results from normal port work, as for Stage 1/2 I have no idea what this means for a pinto head. If you havnt seen or heard of Vizzard style porting I suggest you look into it before spending money on porting. Hadrened valve seats are good, I run these. Im not sure what cam your trying to use as FR cams come in a variety of specs however it needs to be matched to your porting etc... also you will want to balance the rotating assembly as these engines dont like to spin too much and doing cam and port work will want the engine to rev more. You also want your compression about 10.1:1. Also you might want to investigate what size valves are they fitting, too large and you may have issues as a daily driver. Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickyddyer Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 Thanks. They haven't done anything yet. Going to call me and give me some options next week. I'll ask them to balance the rotating assembly. I'm not that clued up on how they do these things but they guy I spoke to seemed really on to it and has obviously done a fair amount of these heads over the years. I'd say he would be doing the balancing anyway by the sounds of what he wanted to do. He was going to investigate the cam specs by the grind number on it and do the porting to match-and to go best with the twin dellorto 45s. And match the lifters and all that fancy jazz. Sorry, i should have mentioned that. Sounds like a lot of money is going to be spent here...I'm going to get it right however. Replacing all bearings and oil sprayer Maybe I should ask for even more skimming to get to the 10.1:1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Im not sure how much you can skim off those heads safely before valves start hitting pistons especially with a high lift cam shaft... they should check all this/know. You also want to get them to lighten flywheel and get it doweled is a good idea. My balencing and lightening of full rotating assembly + boring + crank polish + doweling cost around $1500 but that was a pretty time consuming balance from a race boat engine builder. A vizard style port job + valves can cost over $1000 also and as you know 45's and manifold are around $1000. Then start adding up new bearings and seals + head gaskets, pisotns if your going new, new leads, coil etc and a tune and your getting up pretty high costs for a street engine.. it would be worth doing an engine conversion instead to a modern DOHC engine for the reliabilty + power, thought of this? Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaN Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 - There's alot of cool engines out there that can be purchased from a wreaker for much less than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickyddyer Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 I'm doing the 2L pinto because the car was running a puss 1600pinto and it's an easy upgrade and bolt in. Why didn't you go for the zetec or something? If they are cheaper. I'm not after mad power. Just a cool lumpy idle and bit more grunt for the mk5 goey. Have you got your mk2 going on the road yet gaz? Ive got one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I didnt go for the Zetec for two reasons. (I had one sitting there avaliable) 1. I wanted to stay with the classic era engine 2. I thought Pinto would be easier and cheaper (which I found out after all the bills were paid for was not true) After I did it all and spent the money I now look back and would have definatly gone for the Zetec or an Fe or similar. I got the Cortina on the road years ago, used it for a few years + my wedding and sold it about 8 months ago. Got a house to play with now haha. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Uploaded with ImageShack.us Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickyddyer Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hey anybody know where to get lash caps for these heads? Head shop needs them for this build.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I got mine from Kelford. Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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