5 minutes ago, locost_bryan said:

You might have to contact the NZTA and pay for a search of the chassis number.

Yeah, that's not going to help with this wagon because the tags have been swapped so there is no way of knowing the original chassis number because they are not stamped on the chassis or anything. The old chassis number was lost when the old tags were removed

Just now, ajg193 said:

I think it has to be live rego + current wof for it to be on the list

Yes, it does. So it is really hand for seeing how many of a car is left on the road. But not for trying to track down this wagons original plate.

Next week I am going to format this database so I can make a little chart of how many Avengers and what makes and models are left on the road. Exciting stuff!!

I'm searching in the pre-1990 database so there won't be any dodges

1 hour ago, ajg193 said:

This sounds like a lot of effort for a car nobody really likes?

That's in the eye of the beholder. I think the Avengers are awesome and love my Avenger wagon.

56 minutes ago, locost_bryan said:

I like them. On the NZTA website, there is a downloadable list of pre-1990 rego details - iirc engine and chassis numbers, colours, rego date, body style, but not plate numbers.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/new-zealand-motor-vehicle-register-statistics/new-zealand-vehicle-fleet-open-data-sets/

You could probably trace the engine number for Avenger wagons registered between 1975 and 1977, and then ask NZTA to trace the rego number and tell you if they had both been owned by the same old dude.

Thanks heaps for that. I should be able to find the engine number. As a practice I searched for the engine that is listed on the 

BROWN SALOON 1600 BP7H410 98319118021979200 NEW PRIVATE CHRYSLER AVENGER PETROL WHANGANUI DISTRICT 1979

That is the same area as the wagon is.

If I search for B*7M45 then I should find all 1600 wagons. There are only 15 on the list. Do they delete cars off the list as they become deregistered?

I can see my V8 wagon on the list. And it has been updated to show the engine size as 3968cc

Hmm this is actually amazingly awesome. If I search for Avenger, then it comes back with 280. So does that mean there is 280 Avengers left on the road? and only 15 wagons?

If it is updated to only show cars that are still in the system then it won't show the old detail for the wagon but it is still cool to see how many left.

Just had a reread of that page and it says

"The New Zealand vehicle fleet open data provides a point-in-time ‘snapshot’ of all vehicles currently registered in New Zealand."

So it is only ones that are still registered so the old details for the wagon won't be in it but it is still super cool that I know how many Avengers are left. I'm going to break it down, make up some lists and put them on the Avenger forum.

Thanks heaps for that info!!

Thanks. I thinks also looking at the photos some more I have narrowed it down to either a 1976 or 1977 wagon, which could help. Because it has the pre-facelift dash and grill, it has to be before 78 and because it has the metal window winders then it needs to be after 75, so that narrows it down to a 2 year window.

I'll see if they still have contract details of the owner who did the switch, you could probably track him down through the ownership papers also. They said he was an old guy so fingers crossed he is still with us after 7 years

1 hour ago, Flauski said:

My bad, I see you said the tag does match the plates, I thought it says doesn't. 

I would still get the original colour info for the vehicle that the plates belong to (from land transport) and see if it matches the original colour od the shell in front of you.

A mistake, even though it would be epic is still plausible when they are assembling cars in the 70s, literally grabbing the next shell and next ID tag off the pile and uniting them. 

Not unless they had a time machine  The Hillman wagon body was made at least 2 years before that Chrysler tag was made. The last of the pre-face lift models, which the wagon is was sold in 77, and the tag that's on it was from a 79. 

This is what the Hillman tags looked like. This one is from an early hillman 1600 Super sedan, the wagon would have originally the same style of tag, just with a 7M45 in the chassis number. 

They changed both the ID tag, and the plates over. They took the number plate and the ID tag from the 1979 Chrysler Avenger GLS sedan, with the vinyl roof. And they put it on to this pre-1978 Hillman Avenger wagon.

Other than the number plate and tag, which have been swapped, there are no other identifiable markings on an Avenger so there is no way to tell what the original number plate or ID tag was.

Except for the engine number, but that could have been changed at some point

Yeah, it's not due to a mistake in the records. I have been talking with the seller and I got them to post a photo the VIN plate which is on the car. Which is this one.

That decodes to a 1979 Chrysler Avenger GLS sedan with a vinyl roof.

That tag does match the plates on the car

In 78 they did a face lift on the Avenger a 1979 Chrysler wagon would look like mine. They changed the front grill, indicators, bumpers and dashboard. The Wagon for sale is 100% a pre-78 Hillman

So it couldn't have been a mix up on the assembly line because there is 2 years difference between when they stopped making Hillman's and when the tag was made. So it has to have been switched.

You could go in and try to change the body type to a wagon, with you get you closer to what the car actually it, but it's still not an 1979 wagon, so to get it fully matching you would need to change the year to 77 or earlier, and the make from a Chrysler to a Hillman.

If you look it up in carjam https://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=jh4031 you will see there is a drop in the ODO in 2010. That's when I think the plates were swapped, before that, it's last WOF with in 1999 at 65,937 km. which would have been on the old sedan body. Then it's next WOF was in 2009 at 38,306 (Ignore the 383,066 km, thats just someone not knowing it's a 5 digit odo and putting down the decimal) Which would have been when he swapped it over to the wagon body. This makes sense as the current owner said they owned it for about 7 years so he would have swapped the plates over to the wagon, just before selling it, and then you can see that by the 27,000km drop in the odo

3 hours ago, oldrx7 said:

rather than open the can of worms as tortron said, would it be potentially better for the seller to see if they can get the registered description/plates changed to a wagon?  Clearly the body is a wagon, so that could potentially be a way to half fix the issue?

The problem is worse than that, it's a pre-78 Hillman Avenger Wagon, and the plates and tags are for a 1979 Chrysler Avenger GLS sedan. So it's the wrong year, wrong make, wrong model and wrong body style. 

41 minutes ago, Flauski said:

It would seem that he is screwed. Engine no?

Yes car conversion happens, yes people get WOFs for years but that is the inspectors negligence to do their job correctly. I have seen a vehicle with plates and tags done, with just a piece of insulation tape stuck over the original chassis number (which was stolen.) This vehicle still got warrants because no one bothered to look for the physical chassis number. Its just lazy practice to copy the chassis no. onto the WOF check sheet from the computer when the plate no. is searched rather than looking at the actual vehicle.  

Without some firm proof as to the original identity, he will never be able to prove its not stolen. Buyer beware, due diligence, caveat emptor etc.

 

 

Assuming it still has the original engine, that might be the only way of identifying the car, but can you search for old engine numbers? keep in mine that the original rego has probably been dead for at least 7 years so it will be well and truly out of the system by now.

With the Avengers, there is no other identifiable markings on the car. The only place where the chassis number is noted is on this little plate which is only held on by two rivets, so all you would need to do is drill out the rivets and then swap the plates over and then the car is totally untraceable. BTW, the BP7H41 is what tells you what type of car it is, that decodes to a 1979 1600 manual GLS sedan. If it was a 79 wagon it would be BP7M45

Chances are that you probably could have kept on getting WOF and regos without anyone noticing, because unless you knew the difference between a Hillman and a Chrysler, or unless you looked it up on carjam as saw that it was registered as a sedan, or you decoded the chassis number, then you would never know that the plates have been swapped. It was before they had the chassis number stamped on the body, so back then it was simple to change the plates and nobody would ever spot it, if he had have swapped the plates with another hillman wagon, then you couldn't tell, it's only because they swapped it with a Chrysler sedan that I spotted it

23 minutes ago, igor said:

Equally no-one will be able to prove that it is stolen.

You couldn't prove it's stolen, but you probably couldn't prove you own it either, because when the seller signed over the ownership, they weren't taking ownership of this wagon, they were technically taking ownership of some other random sedan.

I probably don't think the plates were swapped due to theft, talking to the seller, the guy they brought it off was an old guy who had a bunch of Avengers, so he probably just did it because the plates had expired on the wagon.

15 minutes ago, Flauski said:

True but he is asking about re-registering.

Good luck trying to convince Land Transport or an inspector that putting plates and tags on a vehicle was not done for a dishonest purpose.

To be re-registered, the burden of proof is on the person proving (physically with engine/chassis/ID numbers) that it is not stolen. Not that it might be or might not be because it is impossible to determine.

Exactly, so because there is no way to actually tell what the original chassis number was then I can't see a way that you could ever prove what the car is, or if it has been stolen, or if the original seller even owned it in the first place. My only thought is that because they were swapped so long again that maybe they reached some type of statute of limitation. But yeah, it's going to be difficult because you wouldn't even know what year to reregister it as.

 So yeah, I don't know if there is something you can do when a car is in this situation, or if it is destined to become a parts car, which would be a shame.

Hey.

Here is a tricky one. 

I have been looking at a car on Trademe. And I can clearly tell the number plate and tags have been swapped at some stage. The plates come back as the wrong model and also the wrong body type, it's a early model wagon but the plates and tags on it are for a later model sedan.

I have been talking to the seller and they had no idea that the plates had been swapped, they brought the car 7 years ago from an old guy who had a little collection of said old cars, so I'm thinking that the old wagon plates had expired so he did a dodgy and swapped the plates for some live sedan plates. 

Rightly so, now that the seller knows the plates aren't legit, they don't want to sell the car for fear of getting in trouble. Because the wagons are rare I want to see if I can help them get it legal so they can sell it, so hopefully there will be another wagon on the road.

So... what are their options? There are no other tags on it, except for this sedan one, which is clearly wrong. I can't even ID the year, other than it was made some time between 1972 and 1978. It has been driving around and getting WOFs for the last 7 years with the wrong plates and tags, and nobody has noticed. Can they do a Statutory Declaration and say that they have owned it for 7 years and were unaware that the plates had been switched by the previous owner? Would they then need to re-register the car?

Tried the new idea of the painted fins IRL on the old "V8 Four CAM 32" covers. They look pretty sweet. Obliviously I would be doing them on the plain covers without the writing.

What do you guys think? I'm liking the one with out the silver strip at the top and bottom. The bottom one in this picture

And here it is back on the engine

This is my fav because it pops out more, without the writing I think it will look awesome

Almost reminds me on a BMW engine

Here is a couple more ideas one of my friends had.

G. Blank with the top of the "Cooling fins" silver

H. Blank with the top of the "Cooling fins" silver and bottom and top strips silver

More like Hyrda, which are the bad guys from the Avenger comics

7 hours ago, kyteler said:

I would flatten down the centre of the "cooling fins" where you propose to put the badge with sufficient equal space either side of about an inch,  the badge would then sit approximately level in height with the top of fins, paint the whole cover the same alloy shade and it will look even less like a Toyota V8 and more like a classic Mickey Thompson type V8 valve cover which would be more fitting for the car. 

Hope that makes sense. 

I was thinking of doing that originally, except the plastic isn't very thick, and it is sort of ribbed in the inside, sort of like the inverse of the cooling fins, so by the time you flattened it down you could break through the plastic.

4 hours ago, kiwi808 said:

^ what he said.

Love the Chrysler badge idea. Fucking with peoples minds appeals to me. And it will be awesome listening to Barry’s talk about it!

Also, the painted bonnet pins have grown on me. I’ll admit atfirst I was unsure, but like mentioned above it makes it even more sleeper. So now im down with it.

Bygones did a Zephyr with a 1UZ and all they did was put a ford logo on the top of the standard 1UZ manifold and it confuses the crap out of everyone. So I do like that. 

1 hour ago, Muncie said:

Could you make a feature of the spark plug leads ? Make it look extra hemi.... with a pentastar chucked in the middle.

My theme for the motor is super clean and simple, so I want to avoid having any wires or leads visible. I do like the pentastar and mopar hemi badges on that engine. 

8 minutes ago, locost_bryan said:

Perhaps a variation on the rocker covers of the Sunbeam Tiger - "Tiger powered by Chrysler"

I do like that idea. I have model names for each of my Avengers. My 75 is sort of an Avenger Tiger+++ so I called that my Avenger Panther, and my wagon I have dubbed the Avenger Hydra, after the 8 headed monster of legend, so I could go for something like that.

On 10/03/2019 at 18:10, KP_wag said:

Good choice on painting the bonnet pin surrounds, more sleeper = more awesome IMO. I'm currently agonizing on whether to go pins for my thing, REALLY don't want to but seems like the only way I'm gonna be able able to run the intercooler I want dammit

Yeah. They have grown on me. At first they looked odd, but it was just that my eye was drawn to it because I could see something had changed so they stood out.

On 10/03/2019 at 19:37, avengertiger said:

looking good now its coming along i like the older style bumpers much cleaner look did grim have that? its looking like i might not get around to doing a chrysler avenger will probably just stick too hillman i have two brand new headlights for one but i payed a lot for them

pins look better body colour indeed.

I got the bumper off Ross, Oldschool on the Avenger forums. He had them left over from after he sold his Avengers.

They didn't come with the brackets so I had to steal the ones off my 75 Avenger, I'm currently trying to hunt some down so I can put the old bumper back on my 75.

Normally I like the Hillmans for sedans, but I quite like the look of the Chrysler wagons more than the Hillmans. If they are Chrysler lights then I wouldn't mind buying them off you, mine are a bit old.

On 11/03/2019 at 15:26, kiwisurf said:

Saw it at the Brit and Euro show....Its just as sweet in person.

Nice! It was a good day out! So many cars there, I spent all day walking around and still didn't see everything.

I have been playing around with spark plug covers, trying to make the engine look less Toyota like. I wanted to do a quick poll to see what you guys think.

Vote up at the top of the page

A. The original covers

B. Some models had this silver strip on the bottom and top of the spark plug cover.

C. A hacked up blank spark plug cover, this is the cover from the other side without the "V8 FOUR CAM 32" This gives it a real clean look without the writing on it, but does it look too plain?

D. Same as above but with the top and bottom strips painted silver (Ignore the bad photo shop)

E. The blank rocker cover with the Chrysler badge that is normally on the bonnet of the Chrysler Avengers. This will really mess with people because it will look even less like a Toyota engine, I'm hoping it will fool enough people

F. The same as above but with the silver strips.

Discuss here

Cool. So you are just doing the superlaps on sunday then. 

I'll be doing the cruising stuff on Saturday so you are welcome to come out with me.

On Sunday I have entered my car in the show and shine so I will be able to watch you super lapping. 

The Super Lap is on Sunday. And it is a separate $180 fee

On the Saturday there is the DYM (Cruising), Powerskid, Roll Racing, Drifting, HP/Circuit Racing, Burnouts.  

For the Saturday the rules are

Quote

Track Info

Cruising

All vehicles are eligible for Cruising if entered through Option 1. Passengers are allowed, as long as they have filled out the passenger indemnity form and recieved their wristband prior to getting into your car. Seatbelts must be worn, however no helmets or safety gear is required. Cruising is speed limited to 100kmph, no passing on corners, no drifting or burnouts.

Circuit Racing

Circuit Racing is for dedicated track cars only. You will need prior racing experience to enter this. Full cage prefered however not required. Not speed limited, however safety gear is needed (Helmet/Overall/Enclosed Shoes). Passengers are only allowed with a full cage.

Drifting

All vehicles are eligible to enter Drifting if entered through Option 1. Safety gear is required (helmet/overalls/Enclosed Shoes). Full cage prefered however not required. Battles can only be done by fully caged cars. If you don't have a cage, you can still do individual drifting runs. Passengers are only allowed with a full cage.

Burnouts/Grasskhana

All vehicles are eligible to enter both Burnouts and Grasskhana, with two options available. Only safety requirement is a Seatbelt and enclosed shoes. Passengers allowed.

Roll Racing

Roll Racing is a form of Drag Racing with a rolling start. All vehicles are eligible to enter Roll Racing through Option 1 Entry. You will need a Helmet, Enclosed Shoes, Long sleeved top and pants and a Seatbelt. No Passengers allowed.

So I will be able to do the everything except the circuit racing (Personally I won't be doing the drifting or anything like that)

I'm not sure if your car would classify as a "dedicated track car" so not sure if you could just the circuit racing.

So how it looks like they are running it is, use slow pokes can go for a cruise around the track, then the track cars have a turn, then the drift boys, then roll racing. and so on.

I will be doing the cruising, and probably the roll racing. Not sure about the burnouts, and I won't be doing the drifting.

Hey. I'm going also. You should see if you can passenger in my wagon, then we can play swapsies.

I looked it up on the NZTA rego expiry website and it says the last WOF expired 21/06/2002 and the rego is on hold till 05/07/2019. So whoever has it has had it off the road for the last 17 years but has still kept the rego alive.

Thanks, I hadn’t thought of the GR series. 

Question, are the VQ35 in the Skyline the same as the VQ35 in the 350Z? Or are they different specs?

9 hours ago, 120why said:

Im here now and parked my 120y in the classic area. Staying at Hahei camp ground 

I’ve seen your 120y around town heaps! It was parked down by the shops when I was having dinner tonight, if I see you tomorrow I’ll pop in and say hi, you might have seen my Avenger wagon at the festival. Love your roof rack btw. 

It’s pre-75. I’m going to try sneaking on in my 1980 Avenger wagon. Go to gate 2 and just say your a classic car. 

Who else is going tomorrow and or Sunday? I just got down to hahei. 

What do you guys think of a Nissan VQ35DE or VQ30DET?