gibbon

4 hours ago, Ranter said:

Yeah the leaking fuel doesn't need a manifold to ignite it, one of my Starions lit up in about 5 seconds from leaking injector seals which surprised me somewhat as a long time Mitsi owner and not new to the fuel leaks after sitting for some time.

I haven't had a 12v in over twenty years but I thought there was a Mirage inlet manifold that matched the 12v Dash engines? (I had to four extra inlet valves on a switch for no reason other than who else can switch off valves lol)

I've just spent the last hour looking at various mirage engines but cant see anything that looks like itd bolt up... it doesn't help that the mirage had something like twenty different engine fit outs. If you can think of any other distinguishing features of the engine that this manifold is from, I'd love to hear about it, thanks 

This thread is still warm so I don't mind bringing it back from the dead.

Just a theory question, does the throttle plate position make any difference to the function of an inlet runner? Say you have two identical intakes of 10" length, from inlet port to bellmouth. One has the throttle butterfly right up against the head, and one has it right up against the bellmouth. So one has a 9" stack, and one has a .5" stack, but the total lengths are the same. Would there be a theoretical difference? 

got absolutely shat on by the weather over the weekend, garage had a bit of flooding but I was ready for that from experience so everything was already up off the ground. Poor old triumph took a bit of a bath from a leaky roof but no damage done.

I went on another sikk modz tangent because the CA18DET inlet manifold arrived. Port spacing is unnaturally similar, both Mitsi and Nissan even decided to go with the same PSSP PSSP layout so I get the injector bosses in the correct ports. It's quite a strange design, the primary ports get ALL the fuel, the secondary is air only. The DASH engine opens it's secondary inlet valves around 2500 rpm if I recall, things might get a bit strange for a millisecond there as the injector has to double it's output, and God only knows how the charge will mix. Lucky the injectors are so close to the head that the air won't have much of a head start. In retrospect the factory setup is even worse with the injectors way upstream where Mitsubishi originally lazily wedged them in a hollowed out carburetor back in '82 and called it a day. The DASH engine activates the valves at the rockers a la VTEC, the Nissan deactivation system is a bit more agricultural with a TVIS style butterfly which had already been removed from this manifold. The old butterfly shaft bearing hole might be a good place for a vacuum signal.

The coolant port was never going to work so that got trimmed off and went into the bin. Unfortunately the mount hole positions are a bit shit, there's only about 4 studs along the top of the manifold, and two of them are DIRECTLY under the injector bosses. I thought I had a solution by flipping the manifold upside down but that ended up misaligning the other ones even more. Decided in the end I'll pull those studs and countersink those holes on the flange. That'll allow it to be secure, and prevent it from fouling on the injector bosses. The only real downside is that that means the flange will have to go on first, then the rest of the manifold be assembled up against it, rather than it being a nice complete unit. The injector slots in the top of the port may be a problem too, right now they'd effectively be firing into a wall, I only have the thickness of the 7mm flange to try and relieve that. Might end up making a second flange to double the thickness and give me some more room to play with.

Drilled and tapped the flange to suit, couldn't find my tap handle amongst the mess so did the bugger in the vice. The manifold spacing is extremely close to how it wouldve been on the Nissan engine. I could've just about used the factory upper manifold too. The flange will require a little bit more reshaping and probably some hysol/devcon to help build up the larger CA primary ports to match the smaller mitsi ones. The secondary ports are pretty bloody good and will only need a tickle. 

Instead I went with quad throttles for the cool factor, they line up so well, the width is perfect, I could've actually just shaved the eyebrows and gotten away without an adaptor plate, if not for (again) the unfortunate position of the mount lugs, one of the three hanging out in the middle of nowhere, and a second one over an existing, larger threaded hole. Thought about back drilling and tapping the throttle bodies so I could bolt them up however I liked but don't actually want to permanently modify them - as we all know they're the second most overpriced engine component on earth (after the RFB 300zx airflow meter) so if the whole thing comes to naught I'd like to be able to on-sell them

Offered the throttle bodies up, became vaguely aware that it was beginning to look like a bit of a tower of shit tbh. I'll give it a clean up and a paint perhaps. By the time the (outlandishly large) 4AGE plenum goes on it'll be quite a big unit hanging off the side, I wonder if I can brace it a bit better. This is assuming I even use it. The 4AGE inlet I bought didn't come with a TPS but the starion one bolted up perfectly after a minute with a flat file lolol. I believe they work opposite the factory toyota ones but it looks like Tunerstudio has provisions for that.

Next project might be cleaning up the bench

Thanks mate that's what I wanted to hear. I was just aware that every manufacturer had them the usual way around, guess it's a maintenance/access thing for them 

Hi all, I'm building the most amazing inlet manifold ever, and because I have zero fabrication skills, its all preexisting parts and adapter plates 

The problem I've run into is that an existing mount stud fouls directly on an injector boss. If I flip everything 180 degrees, it clears ok. The downside is that the injectors will be effectively upside down. Is this going to cause a problem?

It's a cross flow engine at least, so leaking seals wont mean fuel on the exhaust manifold 

asking because my project came with an autometer AFR gauge, I assumed it was narrowband, it's labelled "rich" and "lean" but there's about a dozen LEDs on either side of stoich which presumably light up individually, allowing it to display some kind of degree of deviation from stoich... does that mean it's probably a wideband?

slightly hijacking the topic, will a narrowband AFR gauge work with a wideband sensor?

Just now, Firebrand said:

I'm on the second starion, the NZ New one - sold the first one just before lockdown, but haven't been on here much lately. I have a spare cowl/scuttle/whatever, but it's a bit stuffed also - rusty in all the usual places, so you haven't missed out on anything!. I'll see if I can get some photos and do a build update later in the week. 

I vaguely remember a red one with a blown head gasket being for sale sometime before lockdown, was that you?

I dropped the bonnet on my bare feet today lads, edge first. I dont think my feet are broken but they're fucking murdering me

Bonnet is doing great 

Has anyone ever heard of Japanese car manufacturers buying their old cars back from overseas?

It may be an urban myth, I just remember being bullshitted at least once about mazda looking to buy old rx's to refurb and re-sell, and something similar with old z cars

Counterpoint; manufacturers dont seem to care enough to bother making parts for old cars, and given that they are still somehow pulling out old mazdas and datsuns to sell at auction over there, I doubt they need to go far afield to find good cars 

Source: guy at a servo one time

Source: wild sharn at a party once 

17 hours ago, Firebrand said:

Nice project!

The Starion I'm currently doing up is in a similar state, and rusted out in most of the same places (some better than yours, some worse). I'm trying to tackle all the repairs myself so those shots from the panelbeater are very useful haha. I'll get off my arse and update my build thread eventually.

just read your project thread, which starion are you doing up now? the first one or the second one

Also I guess what I call a scuttle you call a cowl... you have A SPARE ONE? Tell me you wouldn't have sold it to me anyway, so I'll feel better about spending a fortune fixing mine 

She calmed down a bit when the car left for the panelbeaters, and we got a bit of garage space back.

Then it came back and she's grouchy again. 

Firebrand cool to hear of another starion getting the treatment, let me know if there's anything I can help you with. Seen a couple of other cheap starions pop up on trademe right now, that fucking scuttle rust is a killer alright. My car had one bonnet hinge integral to the firewall, and one was bolted in, I wasn't sure if that was normal, and if not, how it was supposed to actually go. But I see now that the original setup is both of them integral... both of mine are bolt-in now, I'm actually happy about that, means I can get in there again if I need to. My hinges were rooted, thought about going with bonnet pins for a bit but then found some good ones in my parts heap

The next step for me is to start reinstalling the interior, then I'll probably sit on it for a few months as it's not exactly painting weather. I've got to clean up the floor under the dynamat, but the next bit is a bit of a big decision - I sort of need to sort the wiring out before the dashboard goes back on. But I don't know if I want to keep the original ECI setup or go with sik modz and run an aftermarket inlet. So far I've amassed a 4age quad throttle inlet, a CA18DET 4 > 8 port lower manifold adapter, and my flange that I copied off the spare manifold. So I do have the ingredients to make a pretty swank inlet, which will then of course need an aftermarket ecu to run, I'll probably go with a microsquirt, speeduino is more appealing to a cheapass like myself but it doesn't have knock sensing (yet?)

OR

I keep the original setup as-is. It's a rare car, it's a rare engine.... maybe these things are going to be worth something someday? Having said that, the panelbeater did change one of the hinges from an integral to a bolt-in item, so the chassis isn't as-factory original anymore. That'll probably lose my descendants a fortune at the classic mitsubishi auction of 2080

Discussion thread

In this topic we discuss hints and tips for paying someone else to do the hard work 

https://oldschool.co.nz/index.php?/topic/75053-gibbons-85-dash-starion/&tab=comments#comment-2321029

The buggered scuttle

Stuff like this is what ultimately made me realise I could never fix this myself - seam/upper side of the firewall blown through beneath a box section stiffener - the whole section would need to be unpicked to get at it.

So I loaded it up and didn't have to look at it for another couple of months.

In the meantime I contacted the original owner who I don't think was 100% thrilled about who had ended up with his pride and joy - surely he remembered the sik modz I did to my old starion back in the day. Anyway he had a bunch of other spare bits and pieces still in the garage, so popped by and donated them to me. 

Pulled the whole scuttle panel in the end. Rot had even punched through the side of the heater duct for good measure. I've got a bunch of other photos but you get the idea

moisture defying gravity to rot the underside of the scuttle panel because nothing nice is ever allowed to happen.

Lockdown ended, replacement scuttle arrived but tbh was only marginally better, I was a little upset about that. Pictures somewhere but can't find em

Panelbeater showed up for a look, he was surprisingly upbeat about the whole thing. Gave me a fantastic price to do the job, I was stoked as. This is where I feel like a bit of an ass as a lot of oldschoolers would just post up a few quips and a montage of them fixing this shit like it was no big a deal, but I have zero ability to weld. So yup, a good chunk of my "project" was just to pay another guy to fix it up. Sorry. Actually it was extremely liberating to sit on the couch with a beer knowing that some other poor bastard was wrangling the rot out of that old hulk. Panelbeater was impressed with how many pieces I'd managed to pull the car into.

I've got a bunch of other pics but need to work out how to resize them

I pulled the dashboard and wiring looms to get them out of the way, had a bit of a panic here as I thought the floor had been dodgily repaired with fibreglass, but on second inspection it's clutch fluid leaking from the blown master eating up the dynamat.

Here's where the water has rotted through the scuttle, through the upper firewall, and is running down to the bottom of the A pillar, to rot out the sill and onto the floor. Door hinge attach points are mercifully solid. But it's the reason all the wiring had to come out. LHS was marginally better so the (extremely rare) ECU hadn't gotten wet at least

Lockdown was dragging on so I started to peel the scuttle back, to just find rotten shit everywhere. Had a look around for donor vehicles (good luck)

The green and silver rust converter earnestly applied by someone down the line was reminiscent of band-aids on a terminal cancer patient. Turns out after all the love and attention the car received back when I knew it, it'd somehow ended up parked under a tree for a few years which basically rooted it

Inside of one of the guards. Both were completely blown out at the bottom.

Someone had cut the top of the firewall out to assess the rot beneath the scuttle, it'd punched through in about half a dozen places

This was rapidly getting beyond my mediocre ability to fix. Workmate knew a panelbeater who worked from home and offered decent prices. I tee'd a time for him to come and have a look, then lockdown hit. So I stared at this rotten old thing for a month or two. Actually I did a bit more than that, fixed the brakes up, and pulled the turbo to bits for fun

But first some more corrosion gore