ProZac

Loving all the info guys, all these things are getting added to the list of things I'll work through as I find time. Cheers!

Found half an hour tonight to have a little play. Set the TPS as correctly as I could with the engine cold, and the error code for that has disappeared. Took the plugs out and they were super wet and gassy, as expected. Gave them a squirt with brakeleen, dried them out, then hit them with a MAP torch to burn the rest of any junk out of em. Hopefully that will bring them back to life. I bought a new set too, but If I can troubleshoot with an old set it'll save me money, as they be expensive!

The injectors have been tested, and they are apparently find. If there was a mechanical seal issue though, that could certainly account for what's happening. If I don't get it sorted by checking sensors and things around the outside of the engine, I'll dig in that deep and have a look . Yeah, can hear the pump prime, and then shut off. I don't think there is any fuel pressure feedback to the ECU's on these cars, so it would just be on a timer.

Nah, factory ECU. Apparently he'd had a couple of different ECU's in it for testing, with no success.

Both the Full and Narrow range outputs from the TPS sweep test fine. The manual doesn't give any specs, but the results were pretty logical.

Currently it won't even start, fouled to hell plugs. Will try burning them off, or grab a new set if that isn't successful. No on the afr measuring, my wide band controller is currently loaned out. Will pop it in once I grab it back. Will have a look at clutch switch too, cheers.

MAP sensor testing, values are absolute pressures. At ~66kPa -> 1.5V At ~100kPa -> 2.7V At ~200kPa -> 4.8V That's all within the factory specs from a series 6 FSM (which are surprisingly wide tolerances)

Even accounting for crank, cold start, and other enrichments, that seems like a lot! However, I am ignorant of most things rotary .

Good plan, it's now on the list for tonight

No AFM's in these cars, they run a speed density (MAP and IAT sensor) configuration. Didn't get a chance to test the MAP sensor yesterday, but I have it with me in the uni workshop today, so will see how it compares to the factory specs. I really need to get another probe for my scope, so I can overlay spark events and see how they align with the injector pulses. Looking at it again, those pulses are 50ms in length, and that seems really long for what are supposed to be 550cc (thats 27.5cc's of fuel!) injectors... If it's one injection pulse per ignition event (which I would assume... but you know what they say about assumptions). Looking at those scope pics, there are around 275ms between each injection event start, meaning ~3.6 events per second, or ~218 per minute. There is one combustion event per rotor for each revolution of the eccentric shaft, so this would correspond to the motor rotation at 218rpm during cranking. This sounds about right, leading me to believe it is one injection event per combustion event (sequential). Need my bits from china to show up so I can continue the fun! .

Hah, that's a problem that'll never be fixed. Main symptom is that is seems to massively overfuel. Wont idle correctly, and fouls sparkplugs very very quickly. I just plan to keep ticking things off the list till it gets figured out. It's a fun game, and I'll learn heaps about a model of car I've never played with before.

I'll scope them again tonight with a better time scale, get some more detail. Great info, cheers. I've ordered a fuel pressure sensor, but its coming from China, so might be a couple of weeks.

Scopes of the injector signals, ordered Front Primary, Rear Primary, Front Secondary, Rear Secondary. They all look pretty much as I would expect. No action on the secondaries, which makes sense. FP: RP: FS: RS: Took the MAP sensor off to test, will jump on that when I get a spare chance tomorrow.

Yes, I did save one, I'll pop it up later on. Hopefully if I get back from uni early enough today I'll have time to scope out all the others. I'm actually only a part time student, but I'm responsible for the electrical systems on this year's FSAE car, so that take up ALOT of time. But uni has a dyno, and I get to play with it, so it's totally worth it . Cheers heaps for the info Puddles, that's really helpful. Getting rid of any emissions gear is on the todo list for sure.

Brilliant, info, cheers. Yes, it's still sequential, and I would like to keep it as stock as possible. I really liked the sequential system on a couple I test drove. My understanding was the the 'rats nest' was greatly improved after the series 6, and is a more modular system on the series 7 and up cars? Further down the track, if I'm still not having any luck I'll just isolate it out temporarily if that's possible, and see if that changes things. What you've said certainly seems to point more towards an output issue, rather than an input issue. I ran out of time yesterday, but did manage to scope the front primary injector signal. While cranking it was a nice clean square ware, with the expected big inductive spike , around 50ms in length. Haven't had a chance to scope any thing else out yet, hopefully this weekend. The shape of the signal indicates no wiring faults between the ECU and this injector. I look forward to seeing the rest .

Good to know, I'll give it a test at uni tomorrow. The specs are in the FSM. Maxted - I was only going to make one, but could possibly make a couple more. Would just have a simple 16x2 LCD readout that would give the three rotor face readings, nothing fancy .

Dell'orto certainly didn't strike me as an idiot though, and I'm sure if it was something super simple he would have figured it out. I had a few people come around today, and then visited with family, so really didn't get much done! I did confirm that the correct HT leads are going to the correct places though.

I'm all good, I like the separate discussion thread idea, but I like the classic style too. Plus I'm hoping everyone's input will be helpful, so having it all in one place will be sweet .

First day I get to have a play with this. It's bloody freezing out! I'm going to approach this like I approach my embedded systems design projects. Scientific, Documented, Logical and with NOTHING assumed. I've never played with a rotary before, so it'll be a great learning experience. My experience with modern(ish) EFI systems is pretty large, so that should help me out. So, with nothing assumed, I'll start from basics. What does it need to start and idle correctly? Air (+some compression) Fuel (in approximately the correct amount) Spark (at approximately the correct time) Onto testing those three things then. My compression tester is stuffed, so that will have to wait (I've ordered bits to make an electronic rotary compression tester, but more on that as it happens). Fuel is the problem I've been told it has, as in WAAAAY too much, but I'm assuming nothing, so I'll check that. A few things to test here. The easiest of which is that the pulse width going to the injectors is sensible. I've read the the FD injectors are high impedance, and a saturated drive, so testing this should hopefully be pretty easy. Fuel pressure also has to be checked (I'll need to get a bit of gear to do this, it's on the way with the bits for the compression tester). Also the physical side of things, they're side feed injectors, so it would be possible for fuel to be leaking past into the port. Spark can be tested by observation, and with a timing light. Plus running through the FSM details as to what should be where. The only FSM's I've been able to find are USDM series 6 models however, so I'll have to keep this in mind during testing. Right, time to get started!

Quick dirty hack to read the trouble codes from the ECU: Gives: 12 - Throttle Position Sensor (Full Range) - open or short circuit 18 - Throttle Position Sensor (Narrow Range) - open or short circuit 32 - Secondary Air Switching Valve - open or short circuit 46 - Solenoid Valve, Charge Relief - open or short circuit I took the battery terminals off for a couple of minutes, and pressed the brake pedal (procedure for clearing the trouble codes), and then read them again, and the were the still there. The TPS ones make sense, as Brad did say it needed setting up. Things to investigate, yay.

I got home around 30 minutes ago. Holy crap I'm buggered. SLEEEEEEP.

I post this from the 2:30am ferry sailing, on the way home to ChCh from Wellington, because to be honest, I've had worse results from a night away from home:

Would be interested to see how that LSD conversion kit goes, seems a little 'snake-oily'?

Hey dude. Love your car, saw pictures of it floating around facebook and really wanted to see more details, great build thread! Your LSD issues in the rear will be a little tricky to solve, as like you have discovered 7.25" LSD's are really really hard to find. I rekon your best bet is probably to get a complete 87 - mid 90's L200 rear axle, have it shortened to fit, and adapt it to 4 stud and disc brakes. They're the bigger 8" crownwheels, and most have LSD's fitted. The LSD's are a really decent 'ramp' type too, much like after-market units, and work really well. Steve, that works at 'The Diff Shop' is a bloody good dude, and an old Mitsy fan, so could probably help you out with this. Fitting just the L200 diff head into other diff housings is usually a bit tricky, as the L200's have bigger axles with more splines (28 I think) than almost all of the car stuff. A Celeste is the only old Mitsy I'd like more than my Starions. I rekon they're the best shape of any of the old Mitsies.

Have you got a multimeter? With your extra electrical load turned on (lights and stuff), measure the voltage at the output stud of your alternator, and the positive terminal of your battery, interested to see what they are. Sounds like an earthing issue though. Make sure your main earths (battery to body, and engine block to body) are clean and tight.