VintageSpecial

Yes, I am expecting something along the lines of them saying they have no record of it. I have to go to the city on Monday so I might ask at the big station there about it. Simon

I just got a response to the OIA request. They say they received it and were actioning it and I should get an answer on or before the 8th Nov. Simon

Just an update on the next part of the process. I went to the Police Station to see about the 'NZ Police vehicle of interest report' NZTA want to accompany the CA03 form. The lady looked at the email I had from NZTA and said that doesn't sound right, she'd have to go check the process. She tried to ring NZTA directly but gave up after quite a while waiting. She said the Police are not allowed to give out any information from their system like that now and any stations doing that were not supposed to. Maybe some still do so it's a matter of finding a 'good' one. Her suggestion was talk to one of the KDSPs (AA, VINZ, VTNZ). So I toddled off to the AA testing station, they aren't a compliancing one so thought they might not be much help but as it was there went to see. They directed me to the AA office in the mall. They listened to the story and said yes, it sounds like a strange process and they couldn't really help unfortunately. They couldn't understand why the public facing Police stolen vehicle check wasn't enough nor why NZTA can't just check themselves. But one lady did suggest that you can do an OIA request to the Police to find out what info they have. Interestingly I had heard of someone going through the VINing process doing that in the past and I had thought that seems a bit over the top. But indeed you can do one and you can do it online: https://forms.police.govt.nz/oiarequest So I am giving that a try. In the request I specified that I was trying to provide the documentation for the CA03 application, that NZTA were requesting the 'NZ Police vehicle of interest report' to show the Police have no interested in the vehicle and gave them the chassis number (there is only one number on an Austin 7) and asked for all the information they have on it. Of course they will probably just come back and say they don't have anything but that's all NZTA need to see from an official source. I also spoke to the VTNZ centre I am going to use for the inspection and he can do the initial chassis number check once I get the car to them no problem. I asked when they do the certification process for someone what do they do about the Police report. He said they usually just ask the person with the vehicle to go to the Police to ask them for a letter saying they have no interest in it so he was surprised the Police told me they can't do that now. I might try again at the next Police Station I go past to see if they say the same thing. He also said it usually takes a month once the paper work is all sent through for NZTA to come back to you. And that he is booked up doing inspections until November anyway. Everyone I have spoken too seem to think it odd NZTA can't look up or talk to the Police directly to see if a vehicle is stolen themselves. Slow progress but heading in the right direction. Simon

Also regarding the statutory declaration part. That is described well here: https://www.govt.nz/browse/law-crime-and-justice/making-a-statutory-declaration/ There is a downloadable PDF you can print out here: https://www.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Law-crime-and-justice/Statutory-declaration.pdf Someone has posted their version of that form that they used here before too. Simon

Thanks! The problem is the process isn't documented at all on any official site that I have found. Searching for CA03 only brings up the page the document itself is on. And that doesn't mention needing the Police Report for example. You either have to know about that from experience (via here or other place people have discussed it) or they have to email you after you have sent in the application asking for it (as they did for me). Even the process documented on the NZTA site for Entry Certification doesn't mention the process around the use of the CA03. It's only mentioned in the reference materials section here, item 56, Alternative Documents Form. Only the page with the document itself even mentions CA03. The page of interest is here: https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/entry-certification/reference-materials If you select print as PDF (top right) you can get it all in one document to read (it's quite interesting). The link for the whole document is here: https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/entry-certification/intro This explains why different testing places have different levels of knowledge about it. Even the NZTA person I spoke to said that if a testing place hadn't had to do one before they probably wouldn't know about it. It's good that we have it here now and I will probably send a letter in to the VCC for publishing in the club magazine so people there know too. It keeps reminding me of this quote though: “But the plans were on display…” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.” “That’s the display department.” “With a flashlight.” “Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.” “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Simon

OK, I spoke to a very helpful chap at NZTA. He said he didn't deal with CA03s himself but he explained the process extremely well and what they ask for and why as well as what they are looking for you to supply. What they want is the list the replied to me with after I sent in the application. Knowing all of this before hand would make the process simpler. This is what they want and they ask all applicants for this: Vin/Chassis verification from Key delivery service partner (AA, VINZ, VTNZ) NZ Police vehicle of interest report Document(s) confirming past vehicle history and where it came from Document(s) to support the purchase of the vehicle (Names on handwritten receipt does not match with the applicant name. Therefore we cannot establish connection between the applicant and the seller) Signed & Witnessed statutory declaration confirming vehicle ownership The first step you do need to have a testing place physically see the vehicle and verify it is real as Goat says. They give you a document confirming this. The NZ Police report is just a document from the Police saying they have no interest in the car, i.e. it's not stolen. He did say if you had this confirmed in an email from the Police that would be enough but I haven't worked out how you can do that. I will go to the Police station and get something physical off them. The next two documents they discuss they want as much information as possible as others here have mentioned. Photos, history, previous rego, old plates, etc, etc. If you don't have anything you can declare that as part of the statutory declaration of ownership. So in my case I can specifically say the car was bought on TradeMe 10 years ago, I have no way to get the original auction details, no way to get in touch with the previous owner and so on. You lay all this out in the declaration and have it witnessed/signed. He agreed the process isn't well documented but did say it always works the same on their end. The VCC documents help as supporting documentation to some degree I think but they are not the documents they need. This is not clear at all on the VCC side. I suspect they help once the compliance place is looking at it the actual vehicle saying what is it and can you prove that. So all the answers were here in the forum, thank you. It's just piecing them all together to fit what NZTA want. And I will be giving the VCC some feedback on their part (or not!) of the process. All the NZTA people I have spoken to have been very helpful and polite but it helps to know what you need to ask them. I'll update when I actually get all the pieces together and see what happens next. Simon

Definitely taking it onboard, thanks. It's good to hear other peoples experiences and their work arounds. Looks like a trip to town to visit the Police and find a JP is in order soon! Also for us there is possibly an extra step 7.5 - Get the body low volume certed. That one is very hit and miss it seems. Some testing places will say you have to, others say you don't. So you have to find the 'right' one. Simon

The idea behind the VCC documents is they are meant to be recognised even though it is some random old guy who does the 'inspection' to be honest! They, the VCC that is, even state that they are the historic vehicle authority in NZ and have a relationship with NZTA. NZTA have an example of the document on their site even. But then they (VCC) also just said they were having meetings with NZTA and the transport minister recently to show them all this as if it were a new thing so maybe everyone has forgotten. When I last spoke to NZTA the guy was very pleasant and trying to be helpful but did seem completely in the dark as to how things should happen. He said usually the approval documents the CA03 generate go to the testing place directly so they know they are allowed to start the process. I pointed out there is only one place on the form to fill in an applicants details so he was confused as to whether a testing station or the individual was supposed to fill in the form as the applicant. It's really not clear at all. If you don't know about the CA03 form there seems to be no easy way to find out about it on the NZTA website. The only mention of it is the page the form itself is on. I have never found anything that explains the actual process. Simon

Registering a couch might be easier....

No pics unfortunately and no old plates or registration stickers. The guy it came from had built it as a special. I literally pulled the body he had made off by hand and started from scratch. At the time I started the advice was you'll be fine getting it through, no need to worry about it yet. That was 10 years ago. Things change! I can use the chassis number to date when the car was likely made but I have not been able to find any sort of export/import records. Simon

I have the two forms the VCC provide, one is the date of manufacture and authenticity statement. A VCC person comes and verifies the car and what you have, you provide photos, id marks and so on then it goes to the VCC who send you a form stating all of this as well as what category the car is in VCC terms. That should be enough to satisfy the verification of chassis number. To be honest your average inspector would probably struggle to know where to look for identifiers on most pre war cars or what identifiers should be there. I'd probably have to take in the books to show them what to expect. The other VCC form is the statutory declaration and yes, that one is witnessed and signed by a JP so that should be fine too. I'll ring them later and see what they say. One thing for people buying cars off TradeMe, take copies of everything. The TradeMe history only goes back 45 days it seems. I bought mine 10 years ago so there is no hope it's in TradeMe still. All I have is a partial screenshot. No emails unfortunately. I have email going back 25 years all archived from different programs but haven't found that particular time period in any of my old records. Was probably between mail programs or something. I think you are right about the Police Report thing and going to a station. The 105 operator suggested trying that and the VCC form has fine print at the bottom saying 'Some Police stations still provide this'. No hints which though. And they don't list individual station phone numbers anymore, it all goes through 105. Hopefully I can get transferred to an actual Policeman at a desk to ask! It is a bit annoying having to prove to then history of the car when they originally had it (well, the Post Office) and they threw it away. The motor vehicle records were computerised by NZ post in the late 80s. But they only entered currently live registrations. Then a current system was built in 1996 and the records transferred across. CarJam explain it here: https://www.carjam.co.nz/cms/2009/07/11/registration-information-for-older-vehicles/ I have been working with an archivist to find out exactly what happened to the undigitised documents. Are they still about somewhere? She's still looking into it for me. @AllTorque It was that thread that lead me to oldschool in the first place! Very interesting. It shows the ever changing, inconsistent process. Simon

Piazzanoob Piazzanoob, is the form you mean the CA03 Alternative Documents form? It is this one here: https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/resources/content/alt-docs It's for vehicles with no history basically. When I talked to one testing station they told me I needed to have that done first before they could even look at the car. But it seems other testing places will do it on your behalf if you take the car to them first. It basically seems to get the vehicle into the system enough that you can then start the VINing process. Am going though that at the moment with my pre war car and they do want various documents. My statutory declaration came from the VCC (vintage car club) and I had to have it witnessed by a JP. A 1984 car is eligible as a VCC vehicle. They accept anything older than 30 years. Can't say their forms have been much help yet though as I am still going through the process of talking to NZTA. Simon

Does anyone here have any experience with vintage/pre war cars and specials and getting them through the process with no documentation? It seems you need to go through NZTA and the CA03 exemption process to get permission for a testing place to even look at the car. I have documentation from the VCC that is meant to help but seems NZTA don't know what that is. After sending in my application with documents of authenticity from the VCC, signed and witnesses statements from a JP, photographs, original TradeMe Ad from when the car was bought (over 10 years ago) and a receipt from the seller which unfortunately doesn't have my name on it they replied asking for this: Vin/Chassis verification from Key delivery service partner (AA, VINZ or VTNZ) NZ Police vehicle of interest report Document(s) confirming past vehicle history and where it came from Document(s) to support the purchase of the vehicle (Names on handwritten receipt does not match with the applicant name. Therefore we cannot establish connection between the applicant and the seller) Signed & Witnessed statutory declaration confirming vehicle ownership The first should be covered by the VCC pre VIC form. Otherwise they are saying I need to take it to a compliance place so they can see the chassis number that I can then use to apply for the document that allows the testing place to then look at the car. I think the advice from the first testing place was incorrect saying I had to apply for the CA03 (they emailed me the form and said do that before coming to them) whereas a different testing station I talked to indicated normally they would do that part and it takes 6 weeks normally (so you take the car there, they look at it, send off the forms while you take the car away waiting for permission to take it back I guess?). NZ Police when I contacted them have no idea what a vehicle of interest report is. The lady was very nice and sympathetic and said all she could do was look up the registration details. The whole point of this exercise is to get the car registered so there are none. She did search on the chassis number and said their system shows nothing but how do you get a report on something they don't have? Car Jam won't work (need plate or VIN) and a chassis number search on the Police stolen car page just says it's not stolen (can't NZTA look that up themselves?). Past vehicle history, I have none. Just I bought it off TradeMe and the chap I bought it off had it as a project for years. I do have a single screen shot of the original ad. That's all. TradeMe history doesn't go back 10 years. I don't have emails going back that far (well, I do but not that exact period). I can't contact the original seller for the reasons above, assuming he is even still about. I have and provided a signed and witnessed (by a JP) document the VCC provide (Statutory Declaration for a motor vehicle that has limited documentation available) which circularly references in the fine print other documents including the CA03 (the one I need this to apply for) I am trying to apply for and which mentions in the fine print Vehicle of Interest Inquiry to NZ Police (some Police Stations still provide this). The only real contact number for the Police these days is 105 and all she could suggest is visit local Police Stations to find one that knows what that vehicle of interest report is! She said can't the VCC help? Apparently not, officially they claim to be recognised as the historic vehicle authority in NZ. Unofficially the word is yes, it's a bureaucratic mess. Also if you go through them (the VCC) they are obliged to say if the body is modified and then the car has to go through the LVVTA process. The advice there apparently is you just have to find a sympathetic certifier who understand vintage cars. That is not easy as the whole system is geared mainly around Hot Rods (the manual is basically written for Hot Rods or scratch built/modified modern cars). Because the VCC don't specify what needs LVVTA cert on their forms it's up to the certifier. If they decide it's scratch built you can't really built a period correct vintage car to the rules as scratch builds have to follow ALL the rules in the manual then. And I believe even the hot rodders are finding the process difficult now? The other issue is the VCC won't give you the documents (which aren't seeming to be much help now it seems anyway) until the car is basically finished and complete where the LVVTA certifiers typically seem to want to see them while being built. Anyone have any experience with the process recently or know of a sympathetic testing station or certifier who knows about vintage cars and not just hot rods and can help? The cars we build are typically completely original running gear/engine/chassis etc just with a new, period style body. They aren't hot rods. Anywhere in NZ is fine, seems we haven't many options. I am not the only person in this situation and we are banding together but everyone gets told a different story has a different experience. What worked for one person at one place doesn't work for someone else a year later. And this is all for a lowly Austin 7, they don't have a lot of value. I am currently building a second car of a different make which will have far more value but it seems I will never be able to register it here so I imagine when done I will sell it overseas and find a new hobby! Sorry for the long post, as I say everyone has a different story it seems so it's best to lay it all out. Thanks!