VintageSpecial

Latest on this little bike. I did get hold of a dent puller kit, the kind that used hot glued pads, and that did manage to remove the worse of the dents. Where the metal is creased though I can't do much unless you can get to both sides of the damage. But it's certainly improved.

Unfortunately manipulating the tank made the inevitable rust pitting come to light as the picture shows! It is only that bottom corner so far from where fuel was sitting while the bike wasn't used I imagine.

So my plan is to completely strip the paint off the tank. Fix as best as possible the dents and TIG braze the holes. I have the tank soaking in a phosphoric acid bath currently to remove all the rust and will fill it with water before brazing it so I don't explode myself. I will then line the inside with Red Kote sealer which is what I used on the fuel tank I made for my Austin 7 special and that seems to be working very well.

Since I had the tank removed I stripped and cleaned the fuel tap which is what normally attached to that threaded bung there. 

Simon

Thanks! There have been several large piles of KT parts on TM lately. I keep an eye on them of course.

On 26/10/2022 at 12:00, tortron said:

You can make do with a hand polish and some epoxy in the pits 

Epoxy to fill the pits then sanding it smooth does seem to be the way people do it when new forks aren't available. It makes sense, you just need a smooth surface to stop from ripping the seals up.

I started removing the easy to remove bits like the lights. The rear light was broken, one of the mounting bolts ripped out, but I was able to beat it all back into shape and TIG weld it back up. I sandblasted it all and it should all clean up well and be easy to repaint.

I decided to make a nice, tidy, original bike but not go for a concourse restoration given how hard it is to get some parts now. So tidy and usable will be good enough for now!

That's common for a lot of things these days, there is one old chap still doing it and they retire (or worse) and there is no one left doing it anymore. I think we've stopped making piston rings in NZ now for that reason.

Haven't found new stanchions for the KT250 yet. Will keep looking. I found one place overseas that does say they can make them. The rust pitting might be outside the area the forks actually operate over. I need to see what full compression is.

Thanks for that I need to go visit a proper bike shop and see what they have in terms of oils and gear. I think there is a big one in Levin?

Simon

OK, here's a stupid 'this idiot knows nothing about bikes' question. Are bike boots flat on the bottom? I've been putting about on the bike getting the feel of it. I think I have hit all gears now but find it hard to tell at my slow speeds! But I find changing gear tricky because the boots I wear (steel cap work boots) have a heel and the heel catches on the peg and I can't get my toe under the gear shifter.  Are the heels shorter? Maybe I just have tiny feet!

I've cleaned it several times now, with a water blaster and degreased and most of the mud has gone but it's still pretty filthy. I don't think it had been cleaned in ages.

I checked the automatic oiler today as per the manual and that's all fine. I was a little worried it wasn't working but it is all good. 

What oil should go in the chain oiler?

Also when it comes to restoring time what do people do with rusty front forks? I hear it is possible to get them re-chromed? Is there a recommended place?

I put an update on my YouTube channel. A little about the car. Was working on the timber frame but ran the bandsaw blade into a screw which killed it so I did some on the bike instead while I wait for a new one to arrive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvFvn5zCyQs

Simon

I managed to unstick it just by rocking the bike back and forth in gear with the clutch in till I felt it starting to free up. Then I just tried it. Works fine now! So have successfully put-putted around the garden in first at least.

Very quick update. When I start restoring it properly I'll start a page. But I checked it over and it all looked good. So I put fresh fuel in and tried kicking it over. Started on the third try! Probably because I have never kick started a bike before and my first two attempts were pathetic. But it ran. The clutch isn't working so I didn't try putting it into gear.

Simon

Thanks for the hints. I checked for spark last night and that's good and the oil in the oil tank seems good. Would just like to know it runs before taking it all apart. I really shouldn't get distracted from my car project but sometimes you need a break and something else to work on. I realised it has a separate chain oiler built into the frame which is neat. And thanks for the parts link. It still has one original key, would be handy to get some spares.

Simon

Well, it arrived. There are a few more parts to come, the missing side cover and front guard supports. Came with a new front guard and handle bars (one side is bent with the ones on the bike), sprocket and spacer. The seat on it is non original but I think the rest is and is mostly there. Should be an interesting project. I think the clutch isn't working as I can't push it in gear with the clutch pulled in. It kicks over fine and I did a compression check and got 155PSI. It came with a workshop manual which says standard is 164 and service limit is 114 so OK there. I have now exhausted the limit of my knowledge of what to do with an old bike so this should be an interesting learning project! I'll check it over, check the carb and air filter and I guess disconnect the fancy automatic oiler for and see if it fires up on pre mixed fuel?

Simon

John Ficarra has some funny stories about film cars on VinWiki. The film car story is the first one. Be aware you might end up watching all of his stories, they are good and he tells them well.

Film people are weird and never really know what they want. I worked in the industry briefly and did various things with LEDs in them. They'd always say we wanted the red or blue or green but we'd use RGB ones so we could make it any colour since we knew they would see what we made and then say oh, can you change the colour to something else.

I always used to joke one day someone would ask us to do brown lights.

Simon

1 hour ago, Goat said:

@VintageSpecial

Here are some parts diagrams and probably the best source of parts available. Seem to have flat rate shipping last time I checked.
They dont have everything. But its pretty much all NOS bits. Sometimes they have just the bit you need. Beats being reamed with ebay shipping for odds and ends.

https://www.cmsnl.com/kawasaki-kt250-a2-trial-1976-usamph_model15299/partslist/#.Y0c_xXZByUk

Thank you! I had seen that site when I was looking into parts availability. Most useful!

I should really update the thread on my vintage car build (engine runs, about to start building wooden frame for body) but seeing as I should be concentrating on finishing that I did the sensible thing and bought an old bike. I haven't actually got it yet, should arrive tomorrow. It's an old Kawasaki KT250 trials bike. 1976 I think. From what I gather they were sold here in the day as farm bikes.

I don't actually know anything about bikes, have never owned one, don't know how to ride one, and only wanted something to restore (no more room for cars) to learn about them and to putt-putt about our garden and the neighbouring farmers fields hopefully. Possibly down the beach although I think they might have banned that around here now.

A friend suggested a 60-70s Spanish trials bike as they are light and easy to ride but he was talking Bultaco, Montesa, Ossa and so on. Not easy to find, fairly pricy now and, as I have learnt with cars now, getting all your parts from overseas is getting stupidly expensive on postage. My last Riley car parts order of 90 quid cost an extra 70 quid in postage!

This bike is almost complete and the parts needed to restore it are available here.

I am sure I will get people in my old car circles telling me that's a terrible choice and I did a stupid thing (old car people are quite vocal in their criticism - especially if you're a filthy special builder) but knowing nothing about bikes or brands I have no bias at all and after researching this seemed a good choice given the parts availability locally and that although they weren't the best trials bike they are a good putt-putt about bike and easy to learn on from what I gather.

I figure it should be easier than restoring a car right? Unlike my Riley it comes with an actual manual, has half as many wheels as a car and I don't have to build my own body for it!

I'll post a picture when it arrives.

Simon

On 08/09/2022 at 10:18, JustHarry said:

Edit: buy some keyphos and just keyphos the bare metal till your ready to epoxy all your repairs at the same time and start the paint process . But this also needs to be stripped fully as it's not ideal to paint over 

I used something called Kephos a long time ago. Note the difference in spelling. It was clear and pungent smelling and it was the best stuff I have found to keep bare metal from rusting. Was recommended by a panel beaters to rub onto bare steel until you were ready to paint and it worked very well.

Last time I tried to get some some years later I found it had been renamed to PAINT GRIP 253. And it was really hard to actually find somewhere to buy it from as they only sold huge quantities. This is that stuff: http://www.solvents.net.au/index_htm_files/PAINTGRIP 253 (212997).pdf

Searching though you find other things called Keyphos (although confusingly that is now called Fosgard-109) which looks more like a paint you spray onto things? https://sandwell-uk.com/coatings/fosgard-109-lightweight-coating/

Is that the stuff you mean above?

I have also recently started using cold rolled steel instead of Zintech and found it much easier and nicer to work with and hammer and much better to weld too as long as you really clean it first. I do have a lot of problem with bare steel surfaces rusting in my shed though which is annoying.

Simon

3 hours ago, kws said:

Since the VIN brings the car up in carjam they should be covered for that as it will say if there is a police interest or not. A print out of carjam was enough for VTNZ when i did it. The issue is when its not in carjam and then its a feck around as you say.

That is very handy to know, thank you! My situation was for a car with no papers at all so slightly different. It's all a bit daft trying to prove no one has an interest in a car which doesn't exist in the system.

Simon

Hopefully you don't need it but if they ask for a letter from the Police showing they have no interest in the vehicle (i.e. it's not stolen) they no long give out that information out freely. I had to do an OIA request to get it! And yes, even the Police thought that was stupid but it was the only way.

My advice with the paper work is find a test/compliance place who has done it before and can do it for you. When I tried to do it myself it was a massive run around and I got no where.

Simon

19 hours ago, BlownCorona said:

if OP doesnt want this, then i could be interested in it for my chevron. 

Go for it! I think I have found someone who can custom make what I need now. Just working through the details/drawing plans for them.

I am in the VCC but that doesn't help in this case. The problem is this isn't a simple core in a shell like an Austin 7 say. The entire shell forms the outer part of the radiator and the core is soldered in. It's all one piece. There are no originals of this kind around as the car was rare in the day. Somewhere between 100-200 made. The last one I heard of that came up was a while ago in the UK, needed re-coring and was 12000 UK pounds! And I have an original saloon one but it can't be simply cut down as they need to be totally deconstructed, then cut then an new front piece welded on at the bottom to go over the dynamo. The metal you need (nickel-silver) to patch it isn't easily available and doing all that is as difficult as building a new one anyway apparently. I did ask the experts about that option and it isn't really viable.

I have talked to A1 Automotive cooling who supply aluminium cores and can also make top and bottom tanks to suit. So I am prototyping something up later (with cardboard and hot glue!) to see what fits then I can send measurements/pictures to them to see if they can make something. Following the advice above and that from someone I know in the UK who restores pre war cars letting the experts do the welding is probably wise! Cost I imagine is still several thousand dollars but that's better than several tens of thousands on an accurate replica for now.

Funny thing with this car when done is it needs to be inspected by the VCC for them to issue a DOMAS to say it's a true replica. Only by the time I have done it I will be one of the most qualified to make that determination! I have already checked that for certification having a modern core inside a replica shell is fine. It's not changing the form or function of the car I guess.

All good fun, but don't think I will do another!

Simon

The other thing would be just practice my aluminium TIG welding, make top and bottom tanks to suit from sheet and weld them to a suitable core as people have suggested. It seems cores are available and able to be cut down and looking at the pictures of the radiators suggested that's how they are made. I am sure I can get pipes/filler necks ready to weld in too. I've got this far not knowing what I can't do and just trying it anyway so might as well continue in that way! 

Simon

That's a good idea, thanks. I also thought ATV or Motorcycle might be options. The engine capacity on the Riley is 1100cc.

Thanks for the suggestions. For now I am OK with the internals not looking correct so these are all good ideas. I do have TIG. It's how I welded the steel parts of the shell together. I tried to do it with no filler and the few places I did need it I made my own rods from the base metal. I've never quite got the hang of ali with it though so this might be a good opportunity to learn! That link to the Honda one is most useful, it gives me a good starting point. I don't know much about modern cars so wouldn't know where to start without suggestions.

The originals didn't use honeycomb apparently. Well, according to one good source I have. But over the years people ended up using them as they are a 'vintage car' thing. The original saloon car one I have is long wavy vertical strips. Not quite a diamond core though. Hard to replica with fake mesh but one everything is painted black and the shiny stainless stone guard is put in front it does hide things to some degree. You can see the original saloon one in the pictures.

Any core making is expensive since it is very labour intensive and a specialised skill of course. I am looking at that in the future though. In which case I should have made my shell from brass to start with as it is far more corrosion resistant to steel. The Riley core is tricky since it's curved rather than flat too.

I see you can even buy them on Aliexpress. I am not likely to do that but it is handy since the ads give you the overall dimensions which give me something to work on: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002393547729.html?_randl_currency=NZD&_randl_shipto=NZ&src=google&memo1=freelisting&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=9594012230&albag=94205055490&trgt=313429380675&crea=en1005002393547729&netw=u&device=c&albpg=313429380675&albpd=en1005002393547729&gclid=CjwKCAjw_ISWBhBkEiwAdqxb9jC0d4n8eHZ_UZEbnBBbwDUg5dbsOkouipsqzbJUoAC1EFAjfuu0ehoCEjAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&aff_fcid=a3ee814f5d6e459290cf19f8821ce9c9-1656885162622-08229-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=a3ee814f5d6e459290cf19f8821ce9c9-1656885162622-08229-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=83a9b45af66c49758d39670c867fb18b&afSmartRedirect=y

Simon

Oh, should add I am based near Levin/Wellington. Often it's easier to take things to show someone what you need.

Does anyone know of who can make custom radiators or modify off the shelf ones for a certain application or of a small modern core that can be modified?

My Riley radiator would originally have been a nickel-silver shell with a special ribbon style core set inside it. The shell forms the outer parts of the radiator itself. Nickel-silver is not available in NZ easily (and it's not cheap!) so these days people use brass then have it plated. The cores are specially made (by Replicore) and those of the correct pattern aren't cheap as they are hand made. They would then assemble everything into the shell with the sides of the shell forming part of the tanks. The whole things ends up as one piece. The Riley is especially tricky as everything is curved and it has a circular cut out in the bottom to fit over the dynamo which pokes out the front of the engine. 

It is possible to have one made but cost is somewhere over 20k I think. They can't give me a full quote as it is very uncommon and mainly comes down to how much time it takes them. My car is only a replica so it's not worth spending that (now anyway).

So as a cheaper option to get the car finished and drive-able I have made a fake steel shell and want to put a modern core in behind it. Fake mesh will cover the hole on the inside and there is also a woven stainless steel stone guard that goes on the front to further disguise things. The shell gives me the shape I need to build the rest of the bonnet/body around it. It's a bit hard to see in the picture but the angle on the sides of the shell match the angle of the chassis rails where they start pulling in so the bonnet sides are flat but angled if that makes sense. I haven't made the hole for the radiator filler neck yet.

Main problem with the core is very limited space. You can only fit a core about 13 1/2" by 13 1/2" in there and there is only 3-4" space in front of the engine (340mm x 340mm x 75mm). Other complications are this is a thermosyphon engine (no water pump) but I might fit a small hidden electric booster pump somewhere. Also there is no cooling fan.

Eventually I might get a proper core and have it fitted into my steel shell which can be nickel plated. Does anyone know of a small modern core that might fit or can be easily modified to go into that space in the mean time? My original though was something like an original Mini one might work? It would be nice to run the engine for more than 30 seconds as that's all that is stopping me being able to actually drive the car.

Thanks,

Simon

Yep, schemes like that would get rid of cars before they get a chance to become classics I guess. But then again are modern cars likely to be viable as classics in years to come? They are built more like appliances to be replaced these days than machines to be maintained.

As for lobbying I know the VCC do try. Not sure about other organisations or clubs but I guess so? Hot rodders? That must be a sizeable group.

I just want to get my vintage done so I can drive it before 1, petrol gets too expensive/goes away, 2 someone suggests getting rid of 'bad' old cars and 3, while I can still get in and out of and actually fit in the bloody thing!

Simon