Damo's 1965 S-Type

[chasinthemirage]

30 minutes ago, dmulally said:

The series 3 XK has 1980's EFI but the manifolds wont work on my head. That's if it fits at all. 

I think the reason for inefficiency is that it is essentially a post war fast production engine. When designing the 3.4 they had no idea about the Straight of Hormuz or Epstein files and their impact on fuel prices. 

If I were going to pissfart about with EFI I'd just go AJ16 and rocket about. 

Ah right, I didn't realize that the heads were different. Yeah AJ16 makes more sense in that case then. 

[Bearded Baldy]

Yusss another vote for jag in a jag.

[Raizer]

[MadCustard]

Nice!

[dmulally]

24 minutes ago, Raizer said:

 

[RUNAMUCK]

Jag Roadpacer!

/end thread......

[cletus]

6 hours ago, cletus said:

I did a cert check on a s type a few months ago which has a 327 in it

Bit of a tight fit, and the steering interfered with the oil pan a bit

Also not sure how it will go with a brake test due to tiny disc brakes 

I beg your pardon sir, the one i looked at was a mark 2,  not an s type 

Information may not be relevant 

[dmulally]

15 hours ago, Bearded Baldy said:

I spent a bit of time doing the fag packet calculations of what is needed for the SOHC swap. The height and width of the Barra looks like too much for the tight engine bay although the length is fine. Interestingly enough, the SOHC 3.9 has very similar specs to the 3.4xk in regards to size and weight. Both being iron blocks with alloy heads. Where it comes unstuck for me is the sump mods required and wiring. Although I'm slowly starting to realise that I may have to get over my fear of wiring unless I go turbo diesel with a mechanical pump. 

In that case, rather than comparing the EA 3.9 to the XK, might as well compare it to the AJ6. What isn't on the table here is future proofing. I could stock up on AJ6's as they are really cheap, but the EA's parts availability at Supercrap and Ripco will outlive me. 

[VitesseEFI]

16 hours ago, Thousand Dollar Supercar said:

Does anyone ever convert the Jag XK engine to EFI, and does that make it any less rubbish?

There was a factory EFI version on the series 3 XJ6 and maybe even early XJS. Created to meet US emission regs rather than performance but seems to be regarded as an improvement in most respects. Uses Bosch L-Jet which is pretty primitive analogue stuff, but that hardware in combination with even a fairly basic modern stand alone ECU to include 3D ignition control would be the easiest/best route to an EFI XK engine. It’s still a basically fairly inefficient engine though. AJ series much better, especially the 16. 

@BiTurbo228 put a BMW 6 pot deez in an XJ40. Was a bit of a mission, but seems to have been very successful. Not sure if he put a build thread on here but the is one on RetroRides.

https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/216608/1992-jaguar-xj40-superturbodiesel

 

 

[Nominal]

9 hours ago, cletus said:

I beg your pardon sir, the one i looked at was a mark 2,  not an s type 

Information may not be relevant 

The front suspension and bodywork are pretty much the same between the two I think? 

[dmulally]

4 hours ago, Nominal said:

The front suspension and bodywork are pretty much the same between the two I think? 

Correct. The S has a similar rear to the 420 but the 420 has the front of an XJ6. The 420g looks like an S and a 420 had a baby and the baby was born fat. Then the Mk2 looks like a compact version of the S...kinda. The e-type suspension looks very similar to the S but when you take the bonnet off it looks like a space frame holding it all together. 

Being a designer at Jag must have been a fascinating job back in the day. 

When I look up engine swaps I just look for the Mk2 as they are similar but far more popular. Jags were a weird bunch with mixing and matching models. The main difference between the S and the II mechanically speaking is that the S has the famous IRS and the II has a live axle. They are easy to tell apart from the front by the headlight surrounds. Also by the person driving them as the Mk2 owner will be actually driving his and the S-type Barry will be white knuckling it on a 1 meter strop behind a Safari. 

[dmulally]

So I have been doing a bit of flirting with somebody I trust and that is the owner of the Jaguar Workshop. I met him some years ago when he rocked up to Sex HQ one weekend because the s-type and the XJS were outside looking nice from 150 meters.

He was on a roady with the family and I can only imagine their pain when he and I swapped jag sharns whilst they sat in the car. 

Anyway this is what he had to say via email yesty:

The AJ6 and AJ16 as you'll be aware are slanted engines, so fitting everything is very tight fitting in the engine bay of a MK2/S.

Tho, it's been done many times - even here in NZ. I know of some cars. 

However, converting the older XK gearbox to the engine is something I haven't heard of before.

Others have instead run with the 4 speed Auto.

 

Adapting the gearbox may not be straightforward - and for all the effort - it could be swapped out for something like a T5 or Toyota 5 speed. 

You'll find the bellhousing is quite different and starter motor on opposite side, flywheel & clutch different. 

 

For ease of conversion, I'd encourage you to instead go with a XK 4.2 Engine.

It will give you the power you need, and with the right gearing it will also provide good economy.

It is an easy conversion, using most parts off your 3.4 engine like the sump, engine mounts, etc. 

You've never seen my Mark 1, but it runs a 4.2L with Triple S.U's, 4 Speed Syncro O/D with 3.54 LSD. 

It's no slouch, the best time I managed on the 1/4 mile with an open differential at the time and a 3.8Litre engine was 15.6 sec. 

These days it has more grip with the LSD and semi slick tyres, but the 4.2 is less revv'y than the 3.8L and the Synco O/D is weaker and geared differently to the earlier Moss 4 speed so it's resulted in a second or two slower! 

It can still match a 6.0 V12 XJS in performance.

[VitesseEFI]

Seems reasonable to me.
Use a Series three with injection hardware and stand alone ECU for maximum effect…. 

Surely there are factory manual trans cars with The AJ6/16 (R380 box)? Not many maybe….

[dmulally]

1 hour ago, VitesseEFI said:

Seems reasonable to me.
Use a Series three with injection hardware and stand alone ECU for maximum effect…. 

Surely there are factory manual trans cars with The AJ6/16 (R380 box)? Not many maybe….

The manual cars used the Getrag 290. Easy enough to find a case for one even though they are quite expensive. But the Jag specific bits are incredibly rare and usually found on ebay UK with sellers of dubious backgrounds. 

Using XJ6 S3 injection would Shirley be better on fuel than carbs. I guess my reluctance in using one is that the S3 XJ6 had longer head studs that went through water jackets. The short stud blocks were the early ones which Im not sure if the S3 injection would even bolt to and then I'm back to the ol' crappy rear main seal situation. No idea if it even fits in the engine bay either.

A lot of work to end up with something not even as good as an AJ6 in power, reliability or economy. But far simpler to install when thinking of mounts and sump clearance dramas. 

Pros and cons. Or being a Jag, cons and worse cons. 

[Valiant]

Have you considered a 2jz/R154?

Buy something like this

I saw this listing you may be interested in: 2001 Toyota Altezza Gita https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/toyota/altezza/listing/5985292152

Strip it for all the bits you need to make it work

Buy a new R154 off trade me.

Profit.

 

 

[dmulally]

40 minutes ago, Valiant said:

Have you considered a 2jz/R154?

Buy something like this

I saw this listing you may be interested in: 2001 Toyota Altezza Gita https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/toyota/altezza/listing/5985292152

Strip it for all the bits you need to make it work

Buy a new R154 off trade me.

Profit.

I did consider it early on but I want to keep whatever engine I get fairly stock. If I wanted to modify an engine for some good reliable fun that would be right up there. 

But the AJ6 would be similar specs stock and be less work getting it to work meaning economy of effort. 

Everything is a trade off I guess.  

[dmulally]

Righto. I've decided to put a little more art and a little less science into this situation. 

I have snuck in a cheeky bid on this AJ6 I have already been flirting with the seller. 

If @Bearded Baldy gets his precious moral victory then the engine will be an AJ6 and then we can figure out which gearbox to use from there. 

If I don't win then I'll start a poll and inshallah. 

[Bearded Baldy]

As always, mid roadtrip crashpad is ready.

[dmulally]

Then it's settled. AJ6 is officially what is on the menu. A little gutted I wouldnt be able to chooch past the VCC with a detroit 353t hanging out of the bonnet but such is life. 

So whilst I sort out picking this motor up from Hampton Downs (fuck me), the next thing to think about is the gearbag as only auto slush boxes exist in NZ and I aint having any of it. 

I think the stock all synchro box can handle it. But the only concern is that of the laycock overdrive. I have had moderate results with them in the past in an MGB. Moderate in that when it worked it worked well. "When it worked"

It is quite a narrow space up inside the tunnel of around 180mm as the box is more tall than it is wide. 

Considerations for keeping the 4 speed od:

Extra wiring

Weak od

Keeping speedo cable, mount, tailshaft, clutch, shifter location/feel all stock

I do have a lead on a w50 locally for $500 but has no bellhousing. The cheaper 5 speed boxes out there have vss speedo which although I have come up for a fix for that on my Chev M57 swap to go hall effect to mechanical, it's expensive and adds more complexity. 

Open to ideas under $1000. 

 

[dmulally]

Here is where the shifter comes out. I might get rid of the centre console as it is tired and I quite like the look of a plain carpet with a gearstick in the middle.