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Mitsubishi 4G and Lancer experts wanted.


~Slideways~

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Hello, I have a new project that I am doing research on.

I've always wanted an Evo 5 or 6 but they are now stupid money.

But I have just bought a very tired 1998 Lancer MX. Which is the weird parts bin model that has 4wd, a 4g15 and an auto.

Plus it's wofd and regd. There is a hefty leak from somewhere around the transfer case though.

I mainly wanted it because it's got the 4wd floor pan. Some parts number searches tell me the rear diff and axles share the same model number of the evo5.

The hub end will be different because drum brakes a 4 stud. But it's a good start.

I know the subframes are different, being all steel and possible suspension mounting points but I wouldn't think Mitsi would change the chassis mount points...maybe.

I want to build a FrankenEvo of sorts.

I've found a 5 speed from an 4wd mirage but this will be for the same 1.5L so not much use for a 4g63 if I were to swap it.

I'm notnsure if any 4g will fit, surely there will be mount differences, but hopefully this won't be hard to get around.

Does anyone have knowledge of what gearbox options there are, do they all fit any 4G engine (gsr/evo 4 onwards)?

I'm sure I will have to match up ratios with gbox, transfer and rear diff. Can any of the current auto parts be used with another gearbox?

Am I right in thinking the manual gbox for the 1.5L is not going to be very strong even though it seems like it'll fit a 4g93 etc?

Kind of strange that its 4x100, but good since I have some wheels from other cars. Could maybe swap to 4x114.3 too (EDIT: meant to say 5x114.3).

 

Any info or feedback would be great, cheers.

 

 

 

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The Mitsi 4g pick a part options could be pretty good.

Maybe a 2.4 turbo 4g64 block and a mivec head if I can find one?

Maybe a 4g63 turbo from a dead Airtrek, they always seems to get scrapped due to auto failures.

Maybe a 1.8 with mivec head?

I'd love to make it looks like an evo 5 but it's tempting to keep it looking like a boring Lancer too...

I wonder what kind of brakes could fit under 15's and 4x100 wheels?

 

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If the box will fit a 4G93 it will fit a 4g63, 4g64, 4g69

4G69 is a sohc with Mivec (MCM did one) you can get them out of lancers and outlanders etc. If you can find a manual awd outlander the gearbox could be a good option (same with Diff)

4G69 is same height as 4G63, you will need to use the right mounts to make it all work however

The outlander running gear could possibly fit (so could go to 5x114.3 that way as well)

The later model RVR (with the evo 4 onward engine) will also be an option for parts

Obviously looms to match engines etc

Yes diff ratios will all need to match up

4G64 and 4G69 will take an Evo Dohc head

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If you are keen on 4g63t as mentioned above an airtrek turbo is an option, manifolds are different from evo but can be swapped..

Manual legnum may also be a suitable donor vehicle, for gearbox, transfer, axles, and rear diff not sure on gear ratios though.. 

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1 minute ago, mjrstar said:

If you are keen on 4g63t as mentioned above an airtrek turbo is an option, manifolds are different from evo but can be swapped..

Manual legnum may also be a suitable donor vehicle, for gearbox, transfer, axles, and rear diff not sure on gear ratios though.. 

That's interesting I thought Legnums were all v6's? Do they share the same bellhousing pattern then?

 

 

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23 minutes ago, shrike said:

If the box will fit a 4G93 it will fit a 4g63, 4g64, 4g69

4G69 is a sohc with Mivec (MCM did one) you can get them out of lancers and outlanders etc. If you can find a manual awd outlander the gearbox could be a good option (same with Diff)

4G69 is same height as 4G63, you will need to use the right mounts to make it all work however

The outlander running gear could possibly fit (so could go to 5x114.3 that way as well)

The later model RVR (with the evo 4 onward engine) will also be an option for parts

Obviously looms to match engines etc

Yes diff ratios will all need to match up

4G64 and 4G69 will take an Evo Dohc head

Yeah I've seen the MCM one, pretty cool using a basic 4g69.

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14 minutes ago, ~Slideways~ said:

That's interesting I thought Legnums were all v6's? Do they share the same bellhousing pattern then?

 

 

Bellhousing bolt position is different but all the gearbox internals are interchangeable. As is the transfer case, So it wouldn't be a straight Lego swap. 

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2 hours ago, shrike said:

If the box will fit a 4G93 it will fit a 4g63, 4g64, 4g69

4G69 is a sohc with Mivec (MCM did one) you can get them out of lancers and outlanders etc. If you can find a manual awd outlander the gearbox could be a good option (same with Diff)

4G69 is same height as 4G63, you will need to use the right mounts to make it all work however

The outlander running gear could possibly fit (so could go to 5x114.3 that way as well)

 

Manual outlanders (if you mean CW, not CU Airtrek - also called Outlander in foreign markets) basically dont exist in NZ (only some Diesel ones). Manual Airtreks do, but are rare.

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15 hours ago, mjrstar said:

Bellhousing bolt position is different but all the gearbox internals are interchangeable. As is the transfer case, So it wouldn't be a straight Lego swap. 

That's really interesting that they used the same internals, do you think that might mean the 4g15 manual gearbox maybe be the same casing as a gsr/evo? Just different ratios possibly? If that was the case I could temporarily get away with using a 4g15 gbox and upgrade it later.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, ~Slideways~ said:

That's really interesting that they used the same internals, do you think that might mean the 4g15 manual gearbox maybe be the same casing as a gsr/evo? Just different ratios possibly? If that was the case I could temporarily get away with using a 4g15 gbox and upgrade it later.

 

 

I dunno man, there might be a transfer case / torque tube issue, as there is a bunch of wizardry to get the drive to the front left axle. Due to front diff being in the transfer case in evo 4 and up. 

It's possible that the 4g15 box could donate a bellhousing? It might be with some research over on evom

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1 hour ago, mjrstar said:

I dunno man, there might be a transfer case / torque tube issue, as there is a bunch of wizardry to get the drive to the front left axle. Due to front diff being in the transfer case in evo 4 and up. 

It's possible that the 4g15 box could donate a bellhousing? It might be with some research over on evom

Oh right I meant that it is a 4g15 awd manual gearbox, I think that might have read as using a fwd gearbox? Who knows, maybe fwd gboxes could have useful parts. 

I have seen a 4g15 awd manual gbox/xfer/diff set up for sale. Thinking whether I should go for that. Its a W5M42 which from what I can find might have also been use in 2003ish outlanders, so can't be super weak as an assumption. Evo's are w5m51 so can't be that different (wishful thinking maybe).

In theory I could get a fwd manual pedal box from pick a part and clutch master...unless some are cable maybe.

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1 hour ago, ~Slideways~ said:

Just found that:

W5M42 = bellhousing fits 225mm clutch

W5M51 = 240mm clutch

That'll be to do with starter position for ring gear diameter

 

 

I'm going to make a wild speculation based on zero facts that even if the 225mm bellhousing would bolt up to a 4g63 there would be no room on the 2 litre block to fit a starter.. 

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11 minutes ago, mjrstar said:

That'll be to do with starter position for ring gear diameter

 

 

I'm going to make a wild speculation based on zero facts that even if the 225mm bellhousing would bolt up to a 4g63 there would be no room on the 2 litre block to fit a starter.. 

Yes, good point that might be a thing. I thought maybe the bigger clutch was just to get bigger surface area to hold the higher factory power.

 

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On 28/03/2022 at 15:13, mjrstar said:

That'll be to do with starter position for ring gear diameter

 

 

I'm going to make a wild speculation based on zero facts that even if the 225mm bellhousing would bolt up to a 4g63 there would be no room on the 2 litre block to fit a starter.. 

Bit more research and it looks like the 1-3 GSR and Evo's had a gearbox that could be swapped between 93 and 63 blocks. But when they went to the 4-9 with the switched orientation, you can't use a gearbox from a 4g93 on a 63.

So that means using a W5M42 on my Lancer, being Evo 4 shape it has the gearbox in the passenger side.

I THINK that means the W5M42 used on these 1996 onwards cars is probably very similar to the W5M33 used on the Evo3 etc. They also use a 225mm clutch, unlike the big later evo box using 240mm (W5M51).

One thing that goes against this theory of only being able to use a 1.8L 4g9* block is that Google tells me that Outlanders also use this w5m42 gbox in 2.4L... which I thought would be a 4g69??

So I'd probably need to stick to the 4g93 block at most. BUT I could fit a 4G92 1.6 Mivec head which'll flow plenty. Just needs better conrods which looks like the main weakness of the 1.8 4g93's.

 

In the mean time I could fix the 1.5L beast that's in it and at the same time manual swap it with the same w5m42.

 

I should start a project thread but I feel like I've got too many already.:compress:

 

 

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Trouble with Mitsubishi gearbox codes is they don't depict what bellhousing they have to suit different families of engines. As you alluded to earlier, the pre-95/96ish engines orientated on the passenger side tended to share the same bellhousing pattern so the boxes are interchangeable and your clutch size is just determined by the biggest flywheel that particular box can fit. From the 95/96 onwards engines on the driver's side the bellhousing patterns tended to differ slightly so it's not so much like lego any more. A W5M41 will definitely be different from W5M33 because they are different orientations and also the W5M41 has the front diff (maybe even the centre diff too?) mounted in the transfer case while the W5M33 has the front diff within the box casing itself, with the centre diff living off the layshaft that exists in a W5M33 because the engine sits on the passenger side but spins clockwise still so the direction of motion needs to be reversed, whereas a W5M4 or W5M5 series have this.

The last two numbers are the torque rating, so a W5M33 is good for approx 330Nm while the W5M41 and W5M41 are good for 400Nm and 500Nm respectively. You'll probably find a W5M41 will be fine for your needs, just find one that matches the engine it is going to be bolted up to. You could do a 4G69 SOHC Outlander/Grandis/Lancer engine and 4WD box for max cheap and swap on a Hyundai/Kia Sirius clone cylinder head, just find some Evo 4-8 cams and boom you have an almost Evo4-8 engine for cheap. You could even keep it tiptronic but swap in a W5A51 (again from Outlancer, Lancer Cedia etc) and you'll have a car that can launch quick and be a drag weapon with quicker shift times than a manual ever could give you.

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