sr2 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 I've never fancied myself as being a tin basher, fabrication work to me has always involved machining and structural stuff. On my latest project I've had the luxury to push myself into areas I'm not overly comfortable with. Current self inflicted flagellation involves me fabricating from scratch a removeable transmission cover (for my beloved Rigamortice) from 16 gauge Zintex and recycled 3D bends nicked from scrap car panels. Inspired by the legendary Fitzy (see link below) I've set the bar high to make the whole cover by hand with nothing more than the resources I have available - i.e. beer, bullshit, bad manners & 101 Wild turkey. Reason for this post is that with hammer and dolly in hand I hammered out what I thought was a great yet modest panel to add to the afore mentioned transmission cover but when held in place by a number of welding magnets all I got was the porous spitting you get when the MiG bottle finally runs out. Checked out the gas supply, all OK. Re-ground the edges to make sure the zintex coating wasn't interfering; all OK. Closed up the man-cave to check the airflow wasn't blowing the shield away; all OK. Cleaned all to be welded surfaces with CRC Brake-clean to remove any possible contamination; still f***ing all OK! Finally removed all the magnets, held the offending piece by hand and tacked it in place with no fuss? Question is, has anyone else out there experienced this phenomena? I will however add the proviso that since having my booster shot I have occasionally had my left shoulder stuck to the fridge door and at times Bill Gates still talks to me in my head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizer Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Pretty sure it's known as Arc blow or something like that, keep your magnets at least 150mm away from where you're tacking. Have had it happen a few times with tig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tortron Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 my welder had an issue a couple years ago with the weld occasionally spitting like that, it kept getting worse and i was losing it thinking that im losing it. Then it wouldnt make a weld at all, the welding wire would jsut turn red and wet noodle out. In my case it was a bad wire off the transformer, happened to be right on the end of the coil where it joined so was able to unwrap a single coil and remove the offending bit. it was sort of like when you have a shitty earth with how it would splutter how is that related? it would do it way worse when a magnet was nearby. once fixed it would weld near one fine. I suspect its something to do with amperage or frequency compared to strength of the magnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizer Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-gb/support/welding-how-to/Pages/preventing-arc-blow-detail.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Tig arc will wander with a magnet for sure, have not noticed with mig, maybe at really low amperage? Also brakecleen is nasty shit especially when heated, I would recommended something like maybe acetone for weld prep. https://www.thefabricator.com/thewelder/article/arcwelding/cleaning-material-with-brake-cleaner-before-welding-a-risky-move-that-can-turn-deadly 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Fitzee has an amazing Newfie accent. Couldn't pick it initially as sounded like he was swapping between Canadian/Irish. He's got some interesting vids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muncie Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Just tidied up a little welder I bought 20 years ago had exact same symptoms I stopped using it because of it. Had wrong size tip fitted 1.0mm Instead of 0.8mm it would spit and fuck around blow holes etc as the wire would basically weld itself to the inside of the copper tip then break free, the other thing I found was a shit connection in the earth clamp all fixed its a good little machine. Just welding on clean bare steel does it misbehave? Oh and is your wire rusty?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr2 Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Muncie said: Just tidied up a little welder I bought 20 years ago had exact same symptoms I stopped using it because of it. Had wrong size tip fitted 1.0mm Instead of 0.8mm it would spit and fuck around blow holes etc as the wire would basically weld itself to the inside of the copper tip then break free, the other thing I found was a shit connection in the earth clamp all fixed its a good little machine. Just welding on clean bare steel does it misbehave? Oh and is your wire rusty?? I'm using a Cigweld 190; it's a lovely 15 amp machine and I keep it in good condition. Just fitted a new wire liner and it's welding sweet as. The second I removed the magnets it behaved itself? To be honest I was using an overkill of magnets holding a 3D patch in a small area, I might try a test piece tomorrow and will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr2 Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 10 hours ago, Lord Gruntfuttock said: Fitzee has an amazing Newfie accent. Couldn't pick it initially as sounded like he was swapping between Canadian/Irish. He's got some interesting vids... Yeah I've enjoyed his videos. In the past I've been attempting to make larger more complicated panels and have always struggled. His simple tools piece by piece method works and I love his "cut and butt" system, it has made a huge improvement to my panel work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr2 Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 10 hours ago, mjrstar said: Tig arc will wander with a magnet for sure, have not noticed with mig, maybe at really low amperage? Also brakecleen is nasty shit especially when heated, I would recommended something like maybe acetone for weld prep. https://www.thefabricator.com/thewelder/article/arcwelding/cleaning-material-with-brake-cleaner-before-welding-a-risky-move-that-can-turn-deadly I've been using Brakeclean for year with our race cars. Just make sure the area is well ventilated and obviously don't spray it on hot metal and you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bling Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Brake clean for its intended purpose is not the same as using it to clean metal for welding. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr2 Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 10 hours ago, Bling said: Brake clean for its intended purpose is not the same as using it to clean metal for welding. I'll have to beg to differ. For years tetrachloroethylele (not sure if I'm spelling it right!) was easily available as it was used in dry-cleaning and was also a well known as a metal degreaser. We also used to use carbon tetrachloride but with idiots home brewing drugs it's much harder buying chemicals these days. With tetrachloroethylele being the active ingredient in Brakeclean it's an easy and convenient way of de-greasing metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoom Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, sr2 said: I'll have to beg to differ. For years tetrachloroethylele (not sure if I'm spelling it right!) was easily available as it was used in dry-cleaning and was also a well known as a metal degreaser. We also used to use carbon tetrachloride but with idiots home brewing drugs it's much harder buying chemicals these days. With tetrachloroethylele being the active ingredient in Brakeclean it's an easy and convenient way of de-greasing metal. Brakekleen is not recommended for degreasing prior to welding because Tetrachloroethylene, when heated to temperatures you get in welding creates Phosgene gas. Phosgene gas is really not good for you... it was used as a chemical weapon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bling Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, sr2 said: I'll have to beg to differ. You can do what you want. Someone has pointed out there are safer, better suited products for the job and you're not interested. Clearly you're not actually willing to take advice onboard so why even start an asking for advice thread in the first place. Even if it is for other welding issues. People swore by asbestos too, how did that work out. "I've used asbestos for years mate, haven't died so it's perfectly safe". Rhetorical question, I couldn't care less. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tortron Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Don't worry, it only effects brain function 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr2 Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Jeeze what have I started here, looks like the keyboard warriors are here as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Re weld prep chemicals (sorry I started it) I'm not phased if someone is making an informed decision. It if others browse this thread for advice at least there is a bit of info here for people to view and make thier own minds up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bling Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Yeah a quick google provides some pretty telling evidence that welding with brake cleaned metal is dumb. Can't help if people get upset at being called out I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corbie Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Just because someone disagrees with you on the internet, or calls you out for asking for advice, and then arguing with it, doesn't make them keyboard warriors, I'm sure each and every one here would say the exact same thing to your face. Brakekleen is a degreaser, because that's essentially what you are doing when you clean brakes. Nobody has told you, you can't use it to degrease panels for welding, just pointed out why you shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr2 Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Guys as stated earlier I think we need to agree to disagree and get on with it. Tetrachloroethylele evaporates very quickly at room temperature and (unlike Freon 134A which also produces phosgene when burnt) if you give it a few minutes in a well ventilated place its gone before you start welding. Back to the original post; I did a quick test with and without a welding magnet. the results speak for itself (both runs with the same settings). Have to say I was surprised to say the least! ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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