Popular Post kws Posted September 4, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 4, 2021 Good Morning, and welcome to another day of cars I have wanted to own for ages, but have been too scared to, until now. It should come as no surprise to any of my regulars that I am somewhat a fan of Rovers. Generally unloved and kinda forgotten about (or remembered only as "the car grandad had), Rover has always been a bit all over the place as a company, but they could push out some great cars when they needed to. When you think about Rovers, you probably think leather, wood, big engines, soft ride and luxury... not Honda. Honda? What have they got to do with anything? Well, back in the late 70s BL teamed up with Honda to expand their range and help reduce platform development costs. A few years later, and a few "successful" platforms, the R8 was developed. The R8 was a platform that was jointly developed with Honda, who on their side, turned it into the Concerto. Rover took the platform and made the 200, and 400 series cars. Initially in liftback and sedan form, but the platform also spawned the coupe, convertible and touring too. Of course, Rover couldn't leave well enough alone, and instead of the double-wishbone front suspension the JDM cars have, the European Concerto and Rover use McPherson strut in the front. Apparently this was at Rovers request, as it has longer suspension travel for a smoother ride, is cheaper to produce and easier to package. Honda obviously didn't agree with this, as for years all their JDM cars had double-wishbone up front, including the JDM version of the Concerto. The rear of course was pure Honda, with a multi-link independent rear. Among a bunch of other engines available in the 200 were the 1.6L SOHC and DOHC ZC/D-series Honda engines, the infamous K series (no BHG jokes pls), and the T series Turbo engine. The T series is the focus of my attention here. A coupe with a 200HP 2L twin-cam turbocharged engine, a manual gearbox and a super aggressive and agricultural torsen LSD (marketed as "traction control") sounds like a winning recipe to me. This was a genuine, tested and proven, record-breaking 150MPH (240KPH) car. The coupe was developed after a few years of the R8 platform being around. The name Tomcat comes from the codename used during that development, and is such a cool name. It was originally going to be marketed as a sporty MG, with even the concepts wearing MG badges, but somehow found its way into the ranks of the Rover lineup instead. So that brings us to today, where after waiting a couple of weeks that felt like an eternity, the truck with my new car on it arrived. A 1994 Rover 220 Turbo in Tahiti Blue. It arrived with a dead battery (Which was a surprise to me, I was told it had no battery), but swapping to the battery from the Marina and much to my surprise, it fired on the first turn of the key and settled into a smooth idle. No smoke, no hesitation, no roughness. A quick drive around the block, and it ran and drove smooth. The engine revved well, and made all the right noises, but seemed to have no urgency. I suspect there is a lack of boost. I was told when I purchased the car that it ran but ran badly and would hesitate, bog down and run like a bag of diddles. I'm yet to see that. It is low on fuel though, with a dicky battery, which won't help. I'd also doubt it's been run on 98 as it should. Being me, I did preemptively purchase a few service items, so will be going through the ignition system to refresh that, just in case it was a weak spark that had been causing issues. I will also get my old boost gauge temporarily hooked in and see what the turbo system is doing. I have everything needed to build a diagnostic cable for the car too. Since it doesn't use OBD1 or two, it has its own diagnostic terminal under the bonnet that taps into the MEMS ECU system, and although cables can be purchased, it's easy enough to make one. The car isn't perfect, it's far from it really. The paint is pretty good everywhere except the bonnet, which has peeling clearcoat, but overall the car has seen a lot of sun and various rubber and plastics have perished, peeled, cracked or shrunk. It will come up nice with a clean though, and looks nice from afar. Of course the first thing I did was pop the T-Tops... The interior is the same. It's filthy and some of the seat stitching has blown out due to the leather shrinking, but it's all saveable. I'm looking forward to getting some conditioner into the leather. The AC has had the pipes removed, and unfortunately the compressor outlet has just been left open to the elements for who knows how long, so that is probably ruined. Apparently the engine has had the head gasket done, but with all the oil leaks and various scum everywhere, it's hard to tell what's been done and what was porkies. We will see in time what happens with the engine I guess. Hopefully it doesn't overheat, and I can get it boosting as it should. It does make a hell of a noise though, with a straight-through exhaust to the stock rear muffler, plus the pod filter hanging off the nose of the turbo. It's all growls and whooshes. I'm looking forward to giving it a decent thrash. The other major issue is the boot, which is stuck shut. You can turn the key and pull the release all you want, but it doesn't move. On most cars this wouldn't be an issue, just fold the seats down and climb into the boot. Unfortuanately in Rovers wisdom, they put the only release for the seat backs inside the boot >_< I'll need to do some digging on that one. I don't need to use the boot, but I wouldn't sleep knowing it was broken. There is a lot to do on this car, and I feel it will be a source of pain for a while, but once it's going as it should it will be quite rewarding to drive. These are getting to be very rare cars in turbo form, even in the UK, so saving one is a good thing. Plus, it looks bloody good. 23 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kws Posted September 4, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 4, 2021 You'd think opening the boot would be a simple task, but no, not in this Rover. The seller did tell me the boot was jammed shut, so it wasn't a surprise, but it still bothered me. He told me some spare parts were in the boot too, so I wanted to know what they were (nothing interesting). It was stuck in such a way that you could turn the key in the lock, or pull the cable until the cows came home, and although you could hear the mechanism moving, nothing happened. I even tried the old trick of getting someone to push down on the boot as you try to open it, as that can take pressure off the catch if it's binding. It didn't help. The obvious way to get into the boot was to fold the folding seats down and clamber through. Nothing is ever easy though, the only way to fold the seats down is to pull a cable, which is on either side of the inside of the boot. Ah. After much googling, I found one person that had a similar issue, and he explained how he did it. It involved bending the pivot points on the bottom of the seat back, lifting it, and pulling the release. Sounds easy. I started by removing the seat bottom, which pulls up from the back of the base, to unhook the hooks at the front edge. This was the first of the water puddles. I then used a small pry bar to gently lever both of the pivot points so they bent off the pins mounted to the body. Once both were free the back of the seat could be moved around slightly, just enough to lift it up and see into the boot from under it. Using a torch and my longest prybar I managed to push on the back of the release cable for the seat I was working under, which released it and I could remove it. I then used the prybar to reach over and pop the other seatback too. I used an 8mm ratchet to undo the bracket and remove the seat base properly on this side. This left me with a wide, but not too tall opening into the boot. Through which I could see both the boot latch, and the large spider guarding it. I killed the spider, and used my phone to record a video of me pulling the cable, just so I could see how it worked. It was doing as it should, but the lever that should release the catch just wasn't working. I ended up climbing through that gap, into the boot and undoing the three 8mm bolts that attach the latch to the boot lid, and eventually this released enough tension on the catch to unbind it and the boot could be opened. You wouldn't want to be much fatter than I am for this job, I barely squeezed through as it was. By golly that boot lid is heavy though! I used a pair of vice grips and a rag on one of the gas struts just to ensure the boot lid didn't choose to brain me whilst working inside the boot. Might need new struts. After removing the latch it was somewhat obvious why it didn't want to play the game. I'm pretty sure that it shouldn't be twisted like that, and the Lh side should meet the orange line I drew. A quick trip the vice, a few smacks with the BFH, and twist be gone. Refitting and adjusting the latch means the boot now opens and closes, albeit it does need to be slammed to latch. That's fine, as long as it opens and works, I'm happy. Unfortuantely I did find the Tomcat swimming pool though. The spare wheel well was under a bit of water, and the weight on the soggy boot board meant that it has deformed and fallen into the water, thoroughly soaking it. I removed that board, and the carpet on top, and I'm trying to dry them out. The board is probably a write-off, and a new MDF one will probably be on the cards, but the carpet should be saveable. Waste oil containers coming in handy to flatten the board For some strange reason there are no drain plugs in the bottom of the boot, so I had to drill a small hole to drain it. There was a good litre or so sitting in there. So, now that I can open and close the boot, I probably won't use it anyway. The opening is stupidly shallow. Can probably get some shopping bags in there, but anything bigger would be a battle. The parcel shelf also hangs really low (part of the coupe/convertible platform sharing I suspect). It's a good first fix, and I'm glad that I can dry it out now too. 16 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nominal Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Nice! Did I see this on a truck coming through Levin this morning? Pretty sure it was a roveronda on the truck  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 My mate had one of these when we were at uni. Was wickedly fast. His dad was an awesome engineer, and built him a custom close ratio gearbox by sourcing all different flavours of honda that had boxes with these internals (IIRC Legends, Integras and Accords among others) just to get the biggest varieties of ratiors, then chose the best ones to put in the final box. I think he pulled down 13 different boxes. Was REALLY quick after that. However, the britishness finally caught up with him and he had a short in the engine loom and it burnt the whole engine bay out. Car ended up at pickapart.  If only people had known the effort that went into the gearbox. He should have kept at least that! As always, love your build/fix ups. Looking forward to the next installment. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kws Posted September 4, 2021 Author Share Posted September 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Nominal said: Nice! Did I see this on a truck coming through Levin this morning? Pretty sure it was a roveronda on the truck  Very likely. That was Brent from Classic Towing hauling it down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Cool!!! I think this is the same type of Rover I had spotted in blenheim a few months ago and popped up on oldschool spotted? They look really neat- I like the pumped out front arches. Those seats are lush- quite similar in style to the Momo branded recaros I had taken from a Alfa GTV for my Viva. Super comfy! Going by all those leaks I am presuming Rover got the Nissan k11 team to design the seals etc .... Going to watch this with interest- I like your threads. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB8-TypeR Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 1 minute ago, yoeddynz said: Going by all those leaks I am presuming Rover got the Nissan k11 team to design the seals etc .... Since it is essentially a EF Honda chassis then I assume it is the built in tail light seal leak feature that all EF's seem to have. Â Always liked these, look forward to your detailed process of bring it back to its former glory 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kws Posted September 4, 2021 Author Share Posted September 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, DB8-TypeR said: Since it is essentially a EF Honda chassis then I assume it is the built in tail light seal leak feature that all EF's seem to have. Correct, I'll bet on the usual Honda tail light leak, and then Rover adding the boot vents and T-Tops to the mix (both of which are also notorious leak sources). Nothing too major, especially now the boot floor has a hole drilled in it 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Ahhh yeah- I think K11s can leak through the tail lights as well... The plot thickens.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozza Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Wow, I can't believe one of these is still around. Genuinely lusted after these in my late teens. Yeah, I was a special child. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kws Posted September 4, 2021 Author Share Posted September 4, 2021 48 minutes ago, Cozza said: Wow, I can't believe one of these is still around. Genuinely lusted after these in my late teens. Yeah, I was a special child. A child with great taste though! There are a handful of the Honda powered ones around (theres even one local on TM that I tried to buy before this but the seller was a dick) but the turbo ones are really thin on the ground, especially with most of the paint still intact! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfashark Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Old mate's mum had one of these, forever ago. Another mate had the other turbo model - A bit shorter in length than a Tomcat, but just as quick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kws Posted September 5, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2021 I just can't help myself, I needed to dig further into the Tomcat and see what was happening. So the issue I had was although the car was running OK on the one drive I took it on around the block, it ran really flat and there was no boost. I had read about the diagnostic tools available for the MEMS 1.6 ECU, and it was quite limited. I could either spend hundreds of dollars on a dedicated scan tool for it, or make a cable myself and use the free software available. The choice was obvious, DIY. Three parts are needed, Housing - 571-172201-1Pins x3 - 571-170280-1-LPFTDI USB Cable - 895-TTL-232R-5V-WE Some crimping and soldering later, we had a proof-of-concept cable. Once the cable was assembled, and the drivers are installed, it is just a matter of plugging into the car and opening the software. In this case in using the fantastic piece of free software, MEMSFCR. I reconnected the battery, set the COM port on the software, started the car and the software connected with no issues. A quick check of the error codes and showed that I had one, the O2 sensor was reading out of spec. I changed over to the dials screen, and sure enough, the O2 sensor reading was off the scale And the short term fuel trim was trying to pull a large amount of fuel out But what bothered me was the MAP sensor reading. I noticed the needle pegged at 96KPA and sat there, even if the engine was revved. That's not right. This was also where I noticed the car was running like a bag of rubbish, popping and farting when giving it throttle. So I shut the car off and started hunting. Clearly there was an issue with the map sensor, so let's check that first. On the MEMS 1.6 units, the map sensor is inside the ECU and fed via a vacuum hose. Well, clearly I didn't get the memo, but it seems we have advanced to wireless map sensors now. In that image, the hose (orange arrow) should be connected to the black hose nipple (green arrow), but instead, it's hanging free, causing a vacuum leak and not feeding any data to the sensor. I removed the unreliable wireless connection and reverted to good old plugging it in. I fired the car back up, connected the diagnostics and instantly the car was already running better. Much smoother at idle and revved cleanly. The diagnostics were all suddenly back within range now too, with the O2 sensor, MAP sensor and Fuel Trim all perfectly within range. The MAP sensor was now changing with the throttle position as it should. The amount of detail and information that can come through those three pins was quite astounding. It was a bit late at night to take the car for a test drive, so I waited until this morning. Before heading out though I needed to fix another minor issue. My Wife has noticed yesterday when I parked the car in the garage that the taillights appeared to be on when the car was running, but the headlights were off. Turns out yes, there were lights lit, but they were actually the brake lights (although the high stop light wasn't working, as shown in the above photo). The switch on the brake pedal is adjustable, so a quick couple of turns of the switch, and the lights were back to working properly, but I still had no high stop light. Regardless, I embarked on a sneaky trip to the nearest petrol station with the sweet high octane fuel. 40 litres of 98 went into the tank, which in a tank that takes 55L from dry, means it was quite low. The pump certainly sounds a lot happier now. No idea what swill was in the tank, but I bet it wasn't 98. And the result? Well, we certainly have a lot of torque steer now, which also means we have boost again. I need to get a boost gauge on the car to see what we are actually getting, but I suspect it's not the full 12PSI and it does taper off quite quickly, so a smoke and boost leak test is on the cards. The main thing is that it runs really well, drives smoothly, and makes great noises. The temp stays steady, and the fans came on as they should. The brakes need a good looking over as they are spongy and have a bit of a wobble. One thing I knew I needed to fix before trying for a WOF check was the high stop light that wasn't working. They aren't the greatest designed light, and it was an afterthought slapped onto the boot lid of the JDM cars, as the UK cars never had one. It was made by L.E Perei, who appears to make lights for... trailers. Two screws hold the lens on, and then the actual light unit slots into the housing. Inside the boot are the two wires, with bullet connectors attached. Disconnect them, and pull the light unit out through the boot lid. All bulb holders and bulbs were present, one was removed before the photo was taken. The reflector was filthy, so that got a clean, but putting power to the wires resulted in no light from the bulbs. On the back of the unit is a basic circuit board that links all the bulbs in parallel. The bulbs work by just touching the contacts of the bulb holder onto the metal strips on the circuit. I tested all the bulbs one by one to make sure they worked, cleaned the contact areas up with the fibreglass brush, and fitted the bulbs back into the unit. A couple of bulbs only worked after some wiggling, but I got all of them working. The unit got refitted, and a bottle of oil was placed on the brake pedal to test. Aww yeah, look at that vacuumed carpet I reassembled the light, slammed the boot closed a couple of times to latch, and bam, suddenly only 4/5 bulbs worked. Oh well, good enough for a wof. Thinking of the substandard design, I'm going to look for a nice surface mount LED board to fit into a 3D printed housing that works inside the existing light. Do away with that rubbish circuit board completely. Speaking of slamming the boot, this is why it needs to be. My catch looks like this But it should look like this, with a plastic section on the catch, which would change how far the striker needs to go into the catch to latch it. The orange arrow shows what is missing. So I need a new boot catch. Yay. Until then, it's slammy slam time. That is where I'm at for now. I still need to reassemble the back seat, and then work on sealing everything that could leak so the car can live outside again. 24 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 I really hope your day job rewards you well for your trouble shooting and documentation skills? Applying a basic but definitive process to a new problem set and proving the underlying fault is surprisingly rare not to mention looping back to prove the proposed solution returned the desired result. I enjoy reading such posts, keep it up! 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Ditto that man. What a cool result with it only being the vac hose as the main issue. That tuning/diagnostic program looks pretty damn snazy. Is that only for Rovers or it is made to suit other cars with a similar ecu/engine management? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kws Posted September 5, 2021 Author Share Posted September 5, 2021 1 minute ago, yoeddynz said: Ditto that man. What a cool result with it only being the vac hose as the main issue. That tuning/diagnostic program looks pretty damn snazy. Is that only for Rovers or it is made to suit other cars with a similar ecu/engine management? MEMSFCR is an awesome piece of software, and once downloaded runs within a browser tab. I havent even touched the edges of what else that software can do yet. It should work on most Rover/Land Rover with the MEMS ECU, but this particular one is more targeted towards the older MEMS 1.6 that the Tomcat and late model Classic Mini with injection have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozza Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Well done, good sir. Very impressed with your problem solving skills. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Sweet car and nice progress! One of my old mates had one of these for quite a while - it wasn't slow! But it did eat gearboxes - lots of them from memory! I look forward to seeing your progeess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locost_bryan Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Rover had to limit the torque output because the Honda gearbox wasn't strong enough, it was only designed for the 2.7 V6 iirc. One of my wife's uncles was involved with setting up L.E. Perie in NZ during the 1970s, they manufactured LEP lights on the upper floor of the family auto electrical business in Frankton, Hamilton. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kws Posted September 5, 2021 Author Share Posted September 5, 2021 Unfortunately they also chose to use plastic caged bearings in the gearbox, which do not tolerate abuse or lack of lubrication. British leak + plastic cage bearings = disaster. You can strip the box and replace them all with steel case bearings, which helps a lot, but shite its a lot of work. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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