Tomble's 1983 Starion GSR-X fumbling / hand-holding / discussion

[tomble]

12 hours ago, yoeddynz said:

I'm loving these updates. However - it does look like something is going down the wrong path.. 

Yeah, it's starting its (re-)life as an auto.

I do have the bits for manualising it but currently planning to get it registered etc then do the "want" stuff. It's a lot less cognitive load to put things back where they were.

If I get to 99% and breathing gets easier that may change but I'm not letting perfect be the enemy of good right now

[yoeddynz]

Fair enough   But maybe before you go too far with re-assembly you could at least holesaw out that clutch cylinder hole in the bulkhead. Then for the time being fill with suitable rubber grommet or cover with an oldschool sticker etc.  Nicer not having to make a mess later on when dash and engine stuff is in the way?

[fuel]

the good thing about an auto shell is that the transmission tunnel is larger, so you could fit something like a T56 in future haha

[tomble]

On 23/10/2025 at 21:17, yoeddynz said:

Fair enough   But maybe before you go too far with re-assembly you could at least holesaw out that clutch cylinder hole in the bulkhead. Then for the time being fill with suitable rubber grommet or cover with an oldschool sticker etc.  Nicer not having to make a mess later on when dash and engine stuff is in the way?

Yeah, fair call.

I think my list of stuff for the manual conversion is

1. that hole for the clutch cyl and bolt holes

2. (red car) drill out the spot welds on the bracket holding the manual shifter stuff in 

3. (black car) enlarge the trans tunnel hole and weld above bracket in

4. take my two manual transmissions and take them both apart to swap the bell housings over

5. restore the manual drive shaft (it's longer)

6. swap the red car's clutch over and hope it's factory / not modified too much (was using a cable instead of hydraulic)

7. figure out + get a master/slave hydraulic setup 

8. figure out what the heck I need to do to make the electronics think it's in neutral

9. find a certable solution to relocating the transmission mounting points

10. swap over the brake pedal and hope also fine re: certification

11. hope this all works nicely with the larger transmission tunnel and that I don't have to get hammery to create foot/pedal clearance

No harm in doing some of it ahead of time...

[fuel]

Is it getting revinned or something? The manual donor car is N/A right? if so it wont be too useful for some manual parts as most of their manual parts are different as mentioned (cable clutch vs hydraulic, live axle vs IRS so different driveshaft etc).

Wiring is the easiest part - simply bridge two wires together at the inhibitor switch and the car thinks it's in neutral so will start. Then run two more wires for the reverse light switch.

You could definitely drill out the clutch master cylinder holes while the dash etc is out and then just cover them up with bungs or tape, and then you're good to go when it comes time to manual swap, rather than awkwardly try drill them out later on. For both my Diamante and Evo wagons I had to pull the dash to get better access to the firewall, with having to weld in a bracket on the latter. I think on the Starion the clutch pedal and master just bolt in.

[tomble]

I'm not sure what the process is re: vinning, it's been registered in NZ in the past.

The donor is a turbo starion that had a NA 4g63 swap. I believe it was always manual, but the new engine required a narrow bell housing which used a cable clutch, so they mangled things to remove the hydraulic stuff and make it work.

I have the "correct" bell housing for the OG starion turbo engine, which is set up for a hydraulic system. I think all I need to do is source the cylinders and tehy should just bolt up

[fuel]

ah yes - you'll want Starion turbo master & slave cylinders, clutch pedal, manual driveshaft and the turbo KM132 box. I think the auto still used the same 3.545 ratio as some manuals but just check in case. Some manual models ran the 3.909 rear diff too.

[yoeddynz]

Happy to be corrected but if swapping from auto to manual using stock parts from an otherwise like for like platform I don't think there's any need for a cert.  Certainly was the case for our March because other than drilling out the bulkhead pressing it was all just bolt in stuff. The wof guy looked it up and was fine with it because there were no mods needed.

If you could drill out the spot welds on the red car and pinch its box mounts then get them neatly welded into the silver cars tunnel then you'll be bolt in stuff too (I'm presuming they will work in the auto tunnel unless its not just taller but wider as well?) 

[Bearded Baldy]

Any change to the braking system requires cert. Including changing the brake pedal to a skinny one instead of fat auto pad.

Even if using factory parts. It is not the pedal setup the car left the factory with.

Wof audit man used our workshop as a neutral zone to go over a vehicle that someone had flagged, owner tried explaining he was using the loophole of using factory parts.

Audit guy asks if the brake pedal is the one that specific car left the factory with, owner says nah i swapped that too as the original was too wide. No loophole exists.

Even my XC, don't even have to change the pedal box, just slide out the shaft the pedals hang on, and slide the manual pedals on. Still a fail due to brake pedal itself being changed.

Not trying to go on or be a dick about it, just don't want anyone getting caught out.

A bit shit when all things are equal, but rules are rules.

[fuel]

the ironic thing is if you leave the auto pedal in place technically it should be ok, but it creates an even bigger safety issue of the pedal interfering with the other pedals. 

[Bearded Baldy]

I dont know how the clutch pedal attaches on a starion, but yeah pretty much.

Wouldn't work in my case as the pedal shaft everything swings on is longer for manual than auto. And since the brake pedal hangs off of it, it can't be changed either.

Out of curiosity, does the starion clutch pedal have its own seperate mounts?

 

Sorry for thread stealing @tomble. 

[shrike]

@tomble I've always thought stealing the 4G64 from a Triton/L200/Great wall and the 5/6speed box from behind one with a 4G69 head (mivec) and Misi parts bin pistons/rods etc plus a well sized turbo could be a great combo 

Could also track down a Dohc head (sans mivec, unless you do a Mivec conversion similar to what has been done to the 4age) from the many 4G63 options or from a Hyundai variant etc 

If you have to cert for Manual conversion anyway, may as well do the other cert bits (don't listen to me im king of scope creep) 

The Diesel great wall X240? (RWD version) has a 6speed copy of the (toyota) R15* boxes that came behind 1/2JZ etc (bellhousing wouldnt work tho) 

[tomble]

23 hours ago, Bearded Baldy said:

Out of curiosity, does the starion clutch pedal have its own seperate mounts?

I haven't looked too hard at it, but I think the brake mount is the same, so I guess it has its own one. It could be another firewall sandwich affair that just attaches to those two (currently missing) holes.

20 hours ago, shrike said:

@tomble I've always thought stealing the 4G64 from a Triton/L200/Great wall and the 5/6speed box from behind one with a 4G69 head (mivec) and Misi parts bin pistons/rods etc plus a well sized turbo could be a great combo 

Could also track down a Dohc head (sans mivec, unless you do a Mivec conversion similar to what has been done to the 4age) from the many 4G63 options or from a Hyundai variant etc 

If you have to cert for Manual conversion anyway, may as well do the other cert bits (don't listen to me im king of scope creep) 

The Diesel great wall X240? (RWD version) has a 6speed copy of the (toyota) R15* boxes that came behind 1/2JZ etc (bellhousing wouldnt work tho) 

I hope it is now obvious to all why I'm doing the manual swap later 

[ajg193]

That engine looks like it is about ready to be a boat anchor.

Are those jet valves supposed to look like they've been burnt out? 

 

[tomble]

1 hour ago, ajg193 said:

That engine looks like it is about ready to be a boat anchor.

Are those jet valves supposed to look like they've been burnt out? 

No idea! They supposedly are one of the first things to clog up. There's stuff like this to delete them.

I'm hoping that I won't find anything further wrong with the engine. It seems salvagable?

[Taistorm]

I remember when I was playing with early 70s and 80s mirage that the mca jet heads were quite weak and prone to cracking and it was common to delete/bung them up. I had a jap import 1st Gen mirage that had a mca jet engine but I just had it as a parts car so didn't delve too far into it.

[gibbon]

ive got the turbo from my DASH starion still kicking around if you want it (td05h~12), I think it's a mild upgrade over the original 

[bigfoot]

I would give everything a quick measure/hone/ slap some new bearings in and send it.

1 hour ago, gibbon said:

ive got the turbo from my DASH starion still kicking around if you want it (td05h~12), I think it's a mild upgrade over the original 

I have a turbo/manifold sitting in my shed from a dash/starion too

[chris r]

2 minutes ago, bigfoot said:

I would give everything a quick measure/hone/ slap some new bearings in and send it.

I have a turbo/manifold sitting in my shed from a dash/starion too

Plus one on that. 

Or just rock auto a one size fits most rings and bearings set and send it. If you don't measure it then you won't know it's bad so won't have to fix it. 

Will get it going enough to drive it and get a bit of fizz /motivation going 

[bigfoot]

Thats exactly how I built my new engine for my lancer, started it tonight